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Old 11-18-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Location: East Grand Rapids, MI
845 posts, read 3,019,907 times
Reputation: 236

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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
I don't have a problem with basically ANY religion, until they start proselytizing all non-believers, try turning our country into a theocracy, or start treating "outsiders" as third rate. That's when I start throwing barbs at them (well deserved).

If the entire globe kept their religious beliefs to themselves, think of how great this planet would be.
Agree.
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:35 PM
 
1,426 posts, read 2,658,184 times
Reputation: 832
Some would submit that progressive and liberal is an oxymoron.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
7,171 posts, read 7,966,644 times
Reputation: 11932
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmiller View Post
I grew up in the Northeast and also spent many years in Washington DC (now live in Michigan) and definitely disagree with the thought that the liberal Northeast is ultra tolerant. If you don't have a liberal worldview, you're not welcome to share your opinion or thoughts. Surpressing all-things conservative is the mantra in most media and educational outlets.

And by the way - Latte drinking is the minority, trumped by Dunkin Donuts. They own the Northeast coffee drinkers.
Very true, I stand corrected. I am always amazed how arrogant they can be out there, sometimes it really does seem they see themselves as just a bit higher than the rest of the nation, especially parts of the nation that have not bought into the whole leftest progressive type view of the world. Everytime ive ever visited there, someone comments on my midwestern accent and it seems they treat me different because im not from there. (not as good as they are)
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:41 AM
 
3 posts, read 6,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Very true, I stand corrected. I am always amazed how arrogant they can be out there, sometimes it really does seem they see themselves as just a bit higher than the rest of the nation, especially parts of the nation that have not bought into the whole leftest progressive type view of the world. Everytime ive ever visited there, someone comments on my midwestern accent and it seems they treat me different because im not from there. (not as good as they are)
To be honest with you, I agree and also get annoyed with the 'better than you because you're not a cultured, hardened New Englander' attitude. In my experience, there is a interesting trend I've seen where the people that tend to be quick to 'make fun' of mid-westerners / southerners are the ones that have NEVER left New England and really haven't been cultured or traveled or lived out of the area. And this includes those that are very 'affluent' and think there's no reason to explore the rest of the country. That attitude makes me chuckle. They're missing so much.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:30 AM
 
412 posts, read 847,925 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
East coast progressives in Michigan???? Hmmm I dont think they will like anywhere in Michigan exept maybe Ann Arbor. Michigan is a state of pick up driving, deer hunting, beer drinking, gun owning NRA members who may or may not belong to the Michigan Militia. Why on earth would an east coast liberal even think of moving here? I think they would be more comfortable in their ultra tolerant, latte drinking, prius driving, tree hugging northeastern homestate. If they do move out here, THEY should change and adapt to our culture, not preach to us about how we ignorant provinicals need to be enlightend.
I agree that progressives shouldn't move to a conservative area and try to change people. But, why should they change to fit into your culture/political beliefs? Why can't they just continue living their lives as normal?
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,872 posts, read 17,756,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skchi View Post
I agree that progressives shouldn't move to a conservative area and try to change people. But, why should they change to fit into your culture/political beliefs? Why can't they just continue living their lives as normal?
But isn't "educating the ignorant" all of our civic responsibilities? Liberals, conservatives, centrists? Are we really saying that we should take pride in low education levels and ignorant prejudices?

I know of a few East Coast liberals living in Grand Rapids, and they bring a wealth of talent, insight and knowledge to our area. It'd be a shame if they weren't welcome here because they don't deer hunt and don't belong to the right church.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:48 AM
 
1,426 posts, read 2,658,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
But isn't "educating the ignorant" all of our civic responsibilities? Liberals, conservatives, centrists? Are we really saying that we should take pride in low education levels and ignorant prejudices?
It's a noble thought but there will always be people who refuse or are incapable of acting upon this 'enlightenment'. Economically speaking this is good, for the country needs a pool of less educated, lower wage earners to fill many domestic positions and to compete against overseas outsourcing to ... yes, lower educated people.

In fact it's starting to happen already. California just hiked tuition 30%+ because of budget deficits. In an age when tuition is already out of reach of middle America this only worsens it. No doubt tuition hikes will happen nationwide, further increasing the gap. Community colleges are struggling to keep up with enrollment demands, evidence of the shifting paradigm from traditional 4 year colleges offering esoteric degrees like art history to 2 yr associate degrees in practical, vocational venues.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:54 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,629,849 times
Reputation: 4404
Quote:
It's a noble thought but there will always be people who refuse or are incapable of acting upon this 'enlightenment'. Economically speaking this is good, for the country needs a pool of less educated, lower wage earners to fill many domestic positions and to compete against overseas outsourcing to ... yes, lower educated people.
It needs to be noted that plenty of people go through "elite" education and do not emerge with viewpoints that fit the definition of "progressive" in the political sense. The are some pretty nice intellectual arguments for the conservative viewpoint. Conservatives are a pretty diverse bunch. Some have more compelling reasons for being so than others.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,872 posts, read 17,756,057 times
Reputation: 3838
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
It needs to be noted that plenty of people go through "elite" education and do not emerge with viewpoints that fit the definition of "progressive" in the political sense. The are some pretty nice intellectual arguments for the conservative viewpoint. Conservatives are a pretty diverse bunch. Some have more compelling reasons for being so than others.
There's ignorance and prejudice on both sides. But there are a lot more people who are willing to meet in the middle. It's too bad all the crazies get all the microphones.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:24 AM
 
7 posts, read 17,746 times
Reputation: 12
Thank you for proving my point.
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