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Old 11-26-2009, 07:26 AM
 
7 posts, read 17,738 times
Reputation: 12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Hmmm...

If the rest of the country treated progressives like this... would they all leave?

Something to ponder.
Thanks for proving my point.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,446,100 times
Reputation: 651
In my experience, it's the Progressives that are the most judgmental and intolerant of any groups I've come across. I roomed with a Christian Reformed guy from Holland for a while in College. I had no issues with him or with anybody while living in Grand Rapids trying to convert me to their belief system (at least on the conservative side). I've had Progressives completely shun me when they discovered I didn't believe in abortion or support the latest liberal political candidate.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:56 PM
 
283 posts, read 454,341 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by skchi View Post
My husband and I have been looking at moving to West Michigan for a while. Someone suggested Holland, and it looks like a very nice city. However, we're both generally progressive in our political beliefs. Also, neither of us is religious. I know that Ottawa is one of the most conservative counties in Michigan. Holland is also considered generally conservative.

So, how difficult will it be for liberals to live in Holland, the city or township? I'm not interested in living around only liberals, but I also don't want to live around only conservatives .

I don't want to start any political discussions or anything. I'm just looking for honest, open opinions what it would be like for a liberal to live in Holland.
I hear that Detroit is a great place to live. It has great acceptance of successful liberal(progressive) policies that have made it such a thriving metropolitan. The city has extremely low crime, low taxes, free gov't $$ and plenty of JOBS available. Why would you ever consider moving so close to live near those scary conservatives? I just don't understand why you would do that.

Last edited by REIRehabber; 12-02-2009 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:05 PM
 
412 posts, read 847,045 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by REIRehabber View Post
I hear that Detroit is a great place to live. It has great acceptance of successful liberal(progressive) policies that have made it such a thriving metropolitan. The city has extremely low crime, low taxes, free gov't $$ and plenty of JOBS available. Why would you ever consider moving so close to live near those scary conservatives? I just don't understand why you would do that.
Do you even live in Holland?

I didn't think my post was confrontational. It was an honest question. I don't want to live in a place where my political beliefs are a big deal. Moving to an area where a very large percentage of people are conservative COULD make my liberal opinions a big deal. Or maybe it wouldn't. I don't know - that's why I asked.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:44 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 62,142,631 times
Reputation: 22306
Quote:
Originally Posted by REIRehabber View Post
I hear that Detroit is a great place to live. It has great acceptance of successful liberal(progressive) policies that have made it such a thriving metropolitan. The city has extremely low crime, low taxes, free gov't $$ and plenty of JOBS available. Why would you ever consider moving so close to live near those scary conservatives? I just don't understand why you would do that.
True. I wonder why someone would want to move to a conservative area when they don't like conservatives or their frugal policies and have plenty of choices in "progressive" areas - like Detroit.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,870 posts, read 17,737,702 times
Reputation: 3828
Plenty of examples have been given as to how West Michigan is overtly conservative. If you guys could give some examples of how Detroit is supposedly liberal or progressive, that'd be great (cause it's not).
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:29 PM
 
283 posts, read 454,341 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Plenty of examples have been given as to how West Michigan is overtly conservative. If you guys could give some examples of how Detroit is supposedly liberal or progressive, that'd be great (cause it's not).
You're not serious are you? Detroit was the 'Model City' of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. I can post more links if you're not convinced. I just wanted to understand why the OP, a progressive liberal would want to live near all those scary conservatives, if utopia was a stone throw away. It's a legitimate question. I'm trying to understand why liberals flee in droves from NY, NJ, California, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, West Virginia, New Orleans, ect... to traditionally conservative areas of the country, and complain about not wanting to be surrounded by scary conservatives. Why do they continue to subscribe to failed liberal policies and political believes, when they've lived through it? Why infect the rest of the country? Trying to understand. Please help me understand. Thank you.


http://govpro.com/content/gov_imp_31439/
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=10743
http://www.trestinmeacham.org/2009/10/progressive-liberal-failures.html

Last edited by REIRehabber; 12-07-2009 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,870 posts, read 17,737,702 times
Reputation: 3828
Quote:
Originally Posted by REIRehabber View Post
You're not serious are you? Detroit was the 'Model City' of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. I can post more links if you're not convinced. I just wanted to understand why the OP, a progressive liberal would want to live near all those scary conservatives, if utopia was a stone throw away. It's a legitimate question. I'm trying to understand why liberals flee in droves from NY, NJ, California, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, West Virginia, New Orleans, ect... to traditionally conservative areas of the country, and complain about not wanting to be surrounded by scary conservatives. Why do they continue to subscribe to failed liberal policies and political believes, when they've lived through it? Why infect the rest of the country? Trying to understand. Please help me understand. Thank you.


http://govpro.com/content/gov_imp_31439/
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=10743
http://www.trestinmeacham.org/2009/10/progressive-liberal-failures.html
Yes, I'm serious. How about posting something other than links to political hack websites. Where does Detroit stand on environmental policies? Gay Lesbian rights? Land use? Mass transit? Civil rights? Diversity? Organic farming? Green building? Alternative energy? Abortion?

Thank you.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:36 PM
 
283 posts, read 454,341 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Yes, I'm serious. How about posting something other than links to political hack websites. Where does Detroit stand on environmental policies? Gay Lesbian rights? Land use? Mass transit? Civil rights? Diversity? Organic farming? Green building? Alternative energy? Abortion?

Thank you.
OK. I really don't care how you want to slice and dice your definition of liberals/Democrats/Progressives/Socialists/UAW-Lib/Progressive-Lib/Progressive-democrat or whatever. Can we at least agree that a lib is a lib.

I was merely pointing out the fact that Detroit is one of the top ten most liberal city in the country. I would ask that you conduct your own research, or prove to everyone that detroit is not a progressive liberal town.

The fact is that since 1962, every mayor of Detroit has been a liberal progressive democrat. Maybe they weren't as progressive as you would like but nonetheless, they were progressive Libs. At the same time they also transformed Detroit into having the highest poverty rate of any US city in the last 40 years. If I remember correctly, one plus one equals two. Liberal policies and great societies do not work. Why is it that Liberal Progressive Democrats who are so high on social justice, equality, and taking from and taxing the rich to give to the poor all happen to be running all the poorest cities and states in this country. I would rule out the fact that it's coincidental. Sorry magellan if you tend to disagree. We can just agree to disagree. Maybe someone else can chime in to set things straight.

We are straying a little from the original OP's question. I had only wanted to understand why the OP felt like moving into a predominately conservative part of the state, but at the same time didn't want to be living near those so called scary conservatives. Just didn't make sense, and I wanted to understand the logic. Maybe the fact that large conservative parts of the state offer more opportunity for business.

I'm not going to post any more facts. All you really have to do is ask the people of Detroit.

I'm sure not all conservatives agree on every issue, but they at least still consider themselves conservatives. Why can't liberals do the same?

Last edited by REIRehabber; 12-08-2009 at 09:48 PM..
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,870 posts, read 17,737,702 times
Reputation: 3828
Quote:
Originally Posted by REIRehabber View Post
OK. I really don't care how you want to slice and dice your definition of liberals/Democrats/Progressives/Socialists/UAW-Lib/Progressive-Lib/Progressive-democrat or whatever. Can we at least agree that a lib is a lib.

I was merely pointing out the fact that Detroit is one of the top ten most liberal city in the country. I would ask that you conduct your own research, or prove to everyone that detroit is not a progressive liberal town.

The fact is that since 1962, every mayor of Detroit has been a liberal progressive democrat. Maybe they weren't as progressive as you would like but nonetheless, they were progressive Libs. At the same time they also transformed Detroit into having the highest poverty rate of any US city in the last 40 years. If I remember correctly, one plus one equals two. Liberal policies and great societies do not work. Why is it that Liberal Progressive Democrats who are so high on social justice, equality, and taking from and taxing the rich to give to the poor all happen to be running all the poorest cities and states in this country. I would rule out the fact that it's coincidental. Sorry magellan if you tend to disagree. We can just agree to disagree. Maybe someone else can chime in to set things straight.

We are straying a little from the original OP's question. I had only wanted to understand why the OP felt like moving into a predominately conservative part of the state, but at the same time didn't want to be living near those so called scary conservatives. Just didn't make sense, and I wanted to understand the logic. Maybe the fact that large conservative parts of the state offer more opportunity for business.

I'm not going to post any more facts. All you really have to do is ask the people of Detroit.

I'm sure not all conservatives agree on every issue, but they at least still consider themselves conservatives. Why can't liberals do the same?

"Maybe someone else can chime in to set the record straight" Set what record straight? And who out there has the monopoly on "truth?" The fact of the matter is that many conservatives in West Michigan are not very open to outsiders, and can even be a little scary about it. West Michigan is a growing area, and many many employers are reaching further and further out into the country to attract talent; highly intelligent (and many times liberal) talent that is sorely lacking in this sometimes backward and severely un-educated community (one of the lowest percentage of college grads in the Midwest).

Take a look at the 50 top thought leaders/economic influencers in Grand Rapids (hint, it ain't the Devos/Van Andel families) and you'll find several things in common: they're not originally from GR, they are highly educated (multiple advanced degrees), and they tend to lean moderate to left. That's a fact. Good thing they didn't take your advice and stay away, or just accepted the status quo.

If we as a region had to rely solely on local conservatives, our economy would be in ruins.
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