U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan > Grand Rapids metro area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-19-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,409 posts, read 27,051,542 times
Reputation: 16531

Advertisements

I am trying to understand how people think this is a good thread.. are people not reading the things this guy is saying?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-19-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
8,235 posts, read 16,831,262 times
Reputation: 8895
Reading it clearly. It's a complex set of feelings about how some things have changed a lot for the better over time but that there used to be good along with the bad and it seems like some of the 'good' part of the old days seems to have faded away when the trash got taken out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Midwest America
194 posts, read 889,531 times
Reputation: 108
I read Indentured's original post a few times before I really grasped what it was about.

Having said that, I understand why they would say something like that and applaud their candidness. However I will say that as a fairly new (two years) resident of Grand Rapids, I have learned an awful lot about my neighborhood since living here. A few of the residents on my block have lived here for 20+ years. They all tell me how hellish the street was 15-20 years ago. It was filled with impoverished blacks, many of whom were into drugs, drug dealing, prostitution, etc. Gunfire and drive-bys were commonplace, and the state of the homes were in disrepair.

Today, most residents on the block are homeowners who hold at least a bachelors degree and either own a small local business or work a professional job. They take great pride in the community, always picking up trash that is not their own, helping neighbors, keeping watch on one anothers' property/cars/etc, keeping the crime rate at a minimum, and welcome like-minded newcomers who also have the same passion and enthusiasm for their neighborhood and it's constant improvement. They also happen to be mostly white, but race has nothing to do with it. It is because educated people have taken over. When you have a neighborhood filled with ignorant, uneducated, uncouth people, it turns into a jungle-like atmosphere – mayhem ensues, cops are called constantly to keep order because the residents don't KNOW how to keep order.

I would personally embrace this lifestyle of culture more so than one that has me looking over my shoulder constantly.

I wonder if Indentured has ever been to any city in the united states where blacks have moved in as a majority and the crime rate had dropped as dramatically as it did on my street. Does it have anything to do with race? Probably not. It is a result of decades of poverty, lack of guidance, lack of willingness on each others' part to genuinely take control of their own lives and destiny, pursue an education and teach the young how to play a positive role in society. Having lived in Detroit and L.A. I can tell you that the lives of blacks is very different that other races. Although they are quite family oriented, the majority of youth fail to take life by the reins and achieve what many other non-blacks try to do in their formidable years.

The rap culture – although fiercely defended by most blacks as "their" culture – is really a non-culture. Being such a big influence in the lives of most young children, it breeds a society where the attitude is "get rich quick or die tryin'"

Lesson learned: if one cannot correct themselves, life and the penal system will do the correcting for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 11:11 PM
 
60,459 posts, read 85,539,771 times
Reputation: 13277
I think he is just saying that the neighborhood's demographics have changed so much, that he can't really recognize it any more. This is in line with the increased gentrification that occurs in cities across the country.

Also, you can't generalize about mostly Black neighborhoods, as there are many that are pretty safe and are fine. There some aspects of the neighborhood that were probably positive like the close knit families, people knowing each other for so long and the overall sense of community there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Midwest America
194 posts, read 889,531 times
Reputation: 108
Yes Chkthankgod, he is justified to point out how the revival of neighborhoods has seen a decrease in black residents. I'm trying to bring to the foray the "why" aspect. From dilapidated drug houses transmogrified into an architectural renaissance, why in fact has this occured? I don't think it's fair to say that socioeconomic reasons alone are behind this change. In fact I daresay blacks have the same opportunities as whites as asians as mexicans etc to do something positive with their lives and create a harmonious neighborhood free from the miasmic stench of wanton violence, drug use/sales, prostitution and lack of overall discipline.

You do not need a degree in Architecture to make your neighborhood safer (or revived in the Queen Anne Style). What you need is each resident to be concerned enough about the direction their life is taking. You need to be unified as a community in your long-term goals. It's only when neighborhoods get together that any change is made.

When I drive down streets like Diamond around 5 or 6 p.m., I see groups of youth with menacing appearances watching cars that pass by, walking with a stride of disproportional gait where the weight seems to be shifting uneasily between legs, pants halfway falling down. These are not the signs of a peaceful, charming neighborhood. What professional couple of any color or race would like to take a leisurely jaunt with their kids down THAT block? To be quite honest, I feel like I am in Soweto minus the tin-roof shacks – with the shirtless little boys running around across the street holding bags of chips – not a parent in sight.

I don't understand what there is to be missed – I'm sorry if Indentured misses the days when there were many people of the same color living in the neighborhood. If it's color that is missed, then there are many streets south of Wealthy that house a predominantly higher number of african americans. Bemis and Logan are two streets that come to mind. Are they rife with crime? Well I invite you to live there and find out.

No one is going to pull anyone out of poverty and social distress. Controlling your own destiny by making decisions that are for the good of yourself, your family and your community, irregardless of your peers' decisions, is the only way to really go about and make any real change. ie. not dropping out of school, not choosing to sell dope, not choosing to be part of a gang, saying yes to college, etc. It is then, that any homogenous or mixed neighborhood can become safe, prosperous and valued as it should be.

These are REAL values to be missed. Being all black or all white is not a value. Those are superficial things that carry no real merit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2010, 09:45 PM
 
60,459 posts, read 85,539,771 times
Reputation: 13277
Quote:
Originally Posted by windfarmer View Post
Yes Chkthankgod, he is justified to point out how the revival of neighborhoods has seen a decrease in black residents. I'm trying to bring to the foray the "why" aspect. From dilapidated drug houses transmogrified into an architectural renaissance, why in fact has this occured? I don't think it's fair to say that socioeconomic reasons alone are behind this change. In fact I daresay blacks have the same opportunities as whites as asians as mexicans etc to do something positive with their lives and create a harmonious neighborhood free from the miasmic stench of wanton violence, drug use/sales, prostitution and lack of overall discipline.

You do not need a degree in Architecture to make your neighborhood safer (or revived in the Queen Anne Style). What you need is each resident to be concerned enough about the direction their life is taking. You need to be unified as a community in your long-term goals. It's only when neighborhoods get together that any change is made.

When I drive down streets like Diamond around 5 or 6 p.m., I see groups of youth with menacing appearances watching cars that pass by, walking with a stride of disproportional gait where the weight seems to be shifting uneasily between legs, pants halfway falling down. These are not the signs of a peaceful, charming neighborhood. What professional couple of any color or race would like to take a leisurely jaunt with their kids down THAT block? To be quite honest, I feel like I am in Soweto minus the tin-roof shacks – with the shirtless little boys running around across the street holding bags of chips – not a parent in sight.

I don't understand what there is to be missed – I'm sorry if Indentured misses the days when there were many people of the same color living in the neighborhood. If it's color that is missed, then there are many streets south of Wealthy that house a predominantly higher number of african americans. Bemis and Logan are two streets that come to mind. Are they rife with crime? Well I invite you to live there and find out.

No one is going to pull anyone out of poverty and social distress. Controlling your own destiny by making decisions that are for the good of yourself, your family and your community, irregardless of your peers' decisions, is the only way to really go about and make any real change. ie. not dropping out of school, not choosing to sell dope, not choosing to be part of a gang, saying yes to college, etc. It is then, that any homogenous or mixed neighborhood can become safe, prosperous and valued as it should be.

These are REAL values to be missed. Being all black or all white is not a value. Those are superficial things that carry no real merit.
I think what you are saying is right for the most part, but I don't think the community can be generalize that way. There are still people that work hard in spite of their income level. There are families there that I'm sure care about their children. There are people having to deal with decisions, that others take for granted.

I don't think he mentioned anything about being an all Black neighborhood, if it was when he lived there prior to gentrification anyway.

I also think that the situation isn't as simplistic as you are making it either. There are issues in communities and society as a whole that play a part from race, economics, family breakdown, education and so on.

Actually, it seemed like the thing that is bothering is the loss of that sense of community that was there, in spite of the issues there. I liken it to how similar neighborhoods were viewed prior to urban renewal, which killed many a predominately Black neighborhood across the country and a common theme that I hear from that is the sense of community that was broken due to that. What's interesting about then and now, is that it really is out of the hands of the people in the neighborhood, even if everything was "fine".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan > Grand Rapids metro area
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top