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Old 08-22-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
661 posts, read 2,791,466 times
Reputation: 454

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It seem to be in the US a growing percentage of kids are born come from unreliable parents. See this old article from the NY Times. A lot of the time it is one single father that manages to get couple of different girls pregnant but doesn't have money of support the children. Many of single mother also rely on government help to make due. Or the children are born to married couples who just don't seem know how raise them properly.

Most responsible people wait to have kids until they are financially secure and don't have more kids than they can afford. Raising children these days takes a lot of money and of course dedication/time from parents to raise them properly. I think responsible parents are very likely to raise successfully citizens in society.

The main problem I see with unreliable parents is the children they raise seem to have a lot more trouble in life. Often they don't have a good role model in life and won't be able to get ahead. Some children may even end up being abused or killed. Many of children might not even make out of high school, far less get through college. Of course, it also seem more likely end up committing crimes, getting addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Anyone else see this as problem in society? Or is just not a big deal at all?
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fla
1,888 posts, read 7,377,163 times
Reputation: 1541
Excellent debate. I can only guess that many people think it, but few ever discuss it. The one problem with your response, SacalaidWhisperer, is that lot's of people have volunteered to help poor children. Those same people would probably agree with the op. I think it's more of an observation than a judgement call. I think the examples are certainly broad generalizations (not all 'unreliable' people fail at parenting, and not all 'responsible' people actually know how to parent) but the point is well taken. Reference the article before you comment.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:27 AM
Status: "Back on the East Coast" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Caiscais, Portugal
3,883 posts, read 3,609,964 times
Reputation: 9673
It's a big problem. I have a niece who fits the bill. You want to help the kids (who are innocent victimes) but you don't want to enable the irresponsible parent to continue their behavior. You cannot force a person to change who doesn't have the will to do so. My niece continues to have babies with every guy she meets. She has no education, no marketable skills and no sense of responsibility. She expects her mother, great aunt, and every other sucker out there to support her and her kids. The more family enable her by paying her rent and other bills, watching her kids for extended periods, etc. the more she is enabled to continue her self-centered irresponsible lifestyle. On the other hand, its hard to watch the kids suffer so, what do you do? Social services won't intervene, she won't give up the kids and she cannot be trusted, e.g., pretending to go to school so she can get more help from family but not really attending. She wasn't raised to be irresponsible, her siblings work and take care of their families. Some people are simply selfish and irresponsible and the kids suffer. Very frustrating.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,051 posts, read 31,586,502 times
Reputation: 10518
Unfortunately, I don't see this as a really good subject for debate. What would you propose as a solution...legislating who can have children and who can't? That might not be the sort of thing we as a nation really need.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fla
1,888 posts, read 7,377,163 times
Reputation: 1541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Unfortunately, I don't see this as a really good subject for debate. What would you propose as a solution...legislating who can have children and who can't? That might not be the sort of thing we as a nation really need.
Legislating who can and cannot have children will never happen (and I pray no one ever pursues it) be we can start by changing the tolerance that we, as a society has, for "irresponsible" behavior. We can start by changing the supporting role that the gov't has in encouraging it. I don't know how familiar you are with some of the social service programs that are available today but there are quiet a few people who know how to 'work the system'. It's almost impressive if it were not for the fact that they are doing it at my expense.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,771,576 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudvoterofObama View Post
I totally agree. If you aren't financially stable, you shouldn't have children, pets, etc.
So only the wealthy can have children? There have been poor children/families since the beginning of time. Money does not make one a responsible or good parent.

This is the consequence of the sexual revolution mixed with a society that frowns on ending unplanned pregnancies. Even the best forms of birth control fail, with the notable (and unpopular) exception of abstinence.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Between Philadelphia and Allentown, PA
5,077 posts, read 13,504,423 times
Reputation: 3740
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
It seem to be in the US a growing percentage of kids are born come from unreliable parents. See this old article from the NY Times. A lot of the time it is one single father that manages to get couple of different girls pregnant but doesn't have money of support the children. Many of single mother also rely on government help to make due. Or the children are born to married couples who just don't seem know how raise them properly.

Most responsible people wait to have kids until they are financially secure and don't have more kids than they can afford. Raising children these days takes a lot of money and of course dedication/time from parents to raise them properly. I think responsible parents are very likely to raise successfully citizens in society.

The main problem I see with unreliable parents is the children they raise seem to have a lot more trouble in life. Often they don't have a good role model in life and won't be able to get ahead. Some children may even end up being abused or killed. Many of children might not even make out of high school, far less get through college. Of course, it also seem more likely end up committing crimes, getting addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Anyone else see this as problem in society? Or is just not a big deal at all?
Welcome to America. LOL This you realize has been going on for years. Just today I met an active duty Navy girl .... (ready for this???) She's 34 and she mentioned something about her grandkid.... so BEST possible scenario, she gave birth at 15 then allowed her own daughter to get knocked up. THAT's on of your so-called "responsible" people. Yes Siree... LOL
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,991,021 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
It seem to be in the US a growing percentage of kids are born come from unreliable parents. See this old article from the NY Times. A lot of the time it is one single father that manages to get couple of different girls pregnant but doesn't have money of support the children. Many of single mother also rely on government help to make due. Or the children are born to married couples who just don't seem know how raise them properly.

Most responsible people wait to have kids until they are financially secure and don't have more kids than they can afford. Raising children these days takes a lot of money and of course dedication/time from parents to raise them properly. I think responsible parents are very likely to raise successfully citizens in society.

The main problem I see with unreliable parents is the children they raise seem to have a lot more trouble in life. Often they don't have a good role model in life and won't be able to get ahead. Some children may even end up being abused or killed. Many of children might not even make out of high school, far less get through college. Of course, it also seem more likely end up committing crimes, getting addicted to drugs or alcohol.

Anyone else see this as problem in society? Or is just not a big deal at all?
Yes, irresponsible people generally aren't to bright and don't think to far into the future. Responsible people think about how many kids they can afford and responsibly raise. So we will end up as a bunch of babbling idiots as a society if this continues.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 1,991,021 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by nurider2002 View Post
It's a big problem. I have a niece who fits the bill. You want to help the kids (who are innocent victimes) but you don't want to enable the irresponsible parent to continue their behavior. You cannot force a person to change who doesn't have the will to do so. My niece continues to have babies with every guy she meets. She has no education, no marketable skills and no sense of responsibility. She expects her mother, great aunt, and every other sucker out there to support her and her kids. The more family enable her by paying her rent and other bills, watching her kids for extended periods, etc. the more she is enabled to continue her self-centered irresponsible lifestyle. On the other hand, its hard to watch the kids suffer so, what do you do? Social services won't intervene, she won't give up the kids and she cannot be trusted, e.g., pretending to go to school so she can get more help from family but not really attending. She wasn't raised to be irresponsible, her siblings work and take care of their families. Some people are simply selfish and irresponsible and the kids suffer. Very frustrating.
This is the problem with give away govnt programs, they keep enabling them to have more kids. Years ago when people knew there were no freebies, I think they were a little more careful. Now we have a bunch of welfare kids most with no father figure and a useless mother who shove them into the streets to be raised by drug dealers and pimps.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:28 PM
 
28,308 posts, read 30,868,167 times
Reputation: 28880
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
So only the wealthy can have children? There have been poor children/families since the beginning of time. Money does not make one a responsible or good parent.

This is the consequence of the sexual revolution mixed with a society that frowns on ending unplanned pregnancies. Even the best forms of birth control fail, with the notable (and unpopular) exception of abstinence.
I only partially agree. You got it right with this being the effect of the sexual revolution. But I'd add that it used to be that irresponsible young men and women would be effectively forced into giving up their kids for adoption by family and community. Starting around the 1960s that began to be seen as "mean", "cruel", etc. In reality, it was usually the best for all parties concerned. The sexual revolution said demonizing women who got pregnant out of wedlock punished women and let men off the hook. So their solution was to let both women and men off the hook. Gee, how has that worked out for us???

Women with low aspirations in life often don't get abortions or give their kids up for adoption, especially if they can get welfare.

I might also add that in a country like the US, there is much less reason to be poor. But this liberal philosophy of sex on the first date, let alone sex outside of marriage, being ok, is actually contributing to the high rate of poverty in the US. Why is giving birth out of wedlock ok when birth control and abortion are much more available than they were 40 years ago???? At what point do we, as a society, conservative and liberal alike, say "This 'anything goes' philosophy is nuts and is not acceptable?". Conservatives will have to give up their objection to birth control being taught in schools. But liberals will have to give up their idea that single parenting is normal and ok, and doesn't hurt the kids. And that's just it....no one wants to compromise on anything in America any more.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 08-23-2010 at 04:40 PM..
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