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Old 10-29-2010, 04:39 AM
 
25,157 posts, read 53,940,301 times
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The only time a school or college should intervene is if it is for a win-win solution. Everybody should win at the end of the day. I'm sick of this win-lose. Let's make a mockery out of the bully. When how do we know the bully wasn't already mocked and ostracized? He or she obviously learned it from somewhere. lol. Schools and colleges love to scapegoat their scapegoats. Instead of win-win situations. Idiots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
You can thank our touchy-feely, boo-hoo china doll, mommycarryme society for that. Started in the 60s and the ripple effect is simply continuing; the wussification of this country reached absurd levels years ago. People are all but looking for an excuse to whine and cry ("America: Land of the Offended") and discipline has become not just avoided but detested because of all the spineless, mindless so-called parents out there.....ironically, this often produces both bullies and the kids they bully. Hypersensitive kids (who grow up into the hypersensitive morons saturating our society today) have FAR bigger problems than the occasional butthead bully.

As for "stopping it," you can only try to minimize it; saying it can be completely stopped is blatantly absurd.

PS and oh btw: no child has ever been "bullied into suicide." Being so depressed that you want to end your life takes a lot more than even extreme bullying or shame.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,297,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinitegirl View Post
OK - I know this topic is going to fan some flamers, but I think it's extremely relevant given the recent media highlight (and very sad/unfortuante results) of bullying.

There are several other threads that touch on the topic of bullying in some way or another, but my question is - Bullying - is it just a fact of life?

Please don't misunderstand my question - I am not debating the wrongness or rightness of bullying, or ignoring its immense emotional and societal impact. I'm simply wanting to hear some intellectual/philosophical (hopefully friendly/polite) debate about whether or not this particular behavior is programmed into our DNA.

There has been so much recent press about how to stop bullying - it seems reasonable to me to analyze it's root cause.

I think "bullying" is naturally common with a lot of children that have outgoing and/or aggressive personalities. It was common when I was in school MANY decades ago. And let me add that bullying came from various sects: Poor, rich, white, black, and Hispanic. It happened within "the mix" and it happened within groups. I also wish to add that many of these kids came from homes where I knew their parents didn't raise them that way.

Very rarely did the bullying escalate into physical behavior (fights).

So, yes, I think kids can be cruel little bastards by nature. I was the victim of it more than a few times. And, while I wasn't particularly a "bully" by nature, I had my own obnoxious sides. Yes, it did some damage; it helped mold me into the loner that I began to form into in my pre-teen years. However, I don't consider my caution against people a bad thing.

The important thing is that children learn from their behaviors as they grow up. Most do; however, we've all known ~ even worked for ~ adults with bully-like personalities. It's one thing in kids ~ NOT acceptable in grown-ups. But we have more control over how much we'll tolerate it.

I do think the bully issue in schools has worsened since "my day", though. And I could on and on to as to what I blame it on, and what should be done about it, but that would make for one helluva long post.

When raising my own I told my daughter to never start anything; however, finish it if she had to.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:01 AM
 
Location: :~)
1,483 posts, read 3,307,398 times
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Default Fight back!

I was bullied in school...big time. Middle school through high school was tough. Size was my problem. I was always the smallest guy in school...always.

But, it all worked out fine in the end. I started lifting weights, then all of the sudden this short shrimp grew almost 8 inches, at 18 (I grew roughly from 5'4" 140 to 6' 210 pds). Suddenly, people were scare of me. Funny part, my former bullies avoided me because they thought I wanted payback. Seeing their fear was enough for me...truly a great feeling...priceless.

Back to the problem. How did I protect myself as a little fella? I honestly fought back. Yes, I got my azz kicked, but at the time, they knew that I would fight back. Plus, I did attach myself to sports. Football, I was fourth string on defense but sports still helped.

Being a late bloomer hurt my high school career but being small seemingly helped my character. Today, I am very helpful and an overall very nice guy. Was that exclusively because I was a small guy. No, but it did contribute.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:42 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,625 times
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i'm almost shocked at the stupidity of this society. there is a disconnect, cognitive dissonance or some willful ignorance along this subject. it might be some subconscious sympathy with letting the animalistic or aggressive tendencies in children because adults are having to abide by rules and be accountable. then they are doubly hypocritical by pretending it's just children that have this 'problem' or feelings. that's pathetic, dishonest and a scapegoat and is what i'm picking up with majority of people.

first, it's not just children that are "cruel bastards." if children were magically the only ones who had behavior issues or had aggressive motivations, then there would not be wars caused by adults or any of the myriad organizations we have to protect citizens, including the glaring ones such as police, judicial system and jails/prisons!

i'm just floored at the ignorance of the obvious. what's even more pathetic is the constant anecdotal personal stories along the lines of 'i beat them up or i got bigger and showed them' as if that is a sane or practical solution.

bullying issues in schools is not about tiffs, arguments, insults,disagreements or dislike between students. it's about penalties and disciplinary action, even ones that would involve the law when it comes to extreme behavior. extreme behavior is not just rape or murder. pay attention: picking an individual out to stalk them for the purpose of continual harassment as well as physical assault is something a student should have real recourse for and should not have to tolerate or put up with. teachers should not have to put up with students that disrupt class either.

a sane and not extreme solution would involve warnings at the outset and then further disciplinary penalties and action that escalates if the actions are continued. it's very simple just as kids have disciplinary actions, various chores and various discipline at home to teach them right from wrong or what behaviors are acceptable and what is going into an unacceptable territory.

No, your kids are not off-limits that can do whatever the heck they want without some repercussions. if that's what you want, it should be the bullies that are homeschooled and not the other way around. what a backward and unfair society.

to put it another way, let's use some basic logic: why should the child of one parent who pays taxes and is a member of society which has sent them to a public institution to learn have to put up with another child's aggression or harassment (which may even interfere with their learning as well as make them feel unsafe and overly stressed) just because that parent doesn't want anyone or any institution telling their child what to do or have any consequences? the answer is they shouldn't. those who have a problem with that should school them at home or expect those laws and rules in place just as when anyone goes to an establishment and they are disruptive or can't abide by some rules or bother other patrons, they will face consequences or even be forced to leave if they continue. it's just simple common sense.

though, most schools have a lot of negative influences so many parents choose to homeschool regardless.

Last edited by rory00; 10-31-2010 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: :~)
1,483 posts, read 3,307,398 times
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Rory00-I agree with your post 100%. Out growing or physically harming our bullies are not the solutions to the problem but we still must equip our children with the mental strength or in my case physicality to protect themselves.

Matter of fact, both of my boys are currently being bullied. We reported one incident to the principal. In another circumstance, the bully touched my other son, and he handled the circumstance appropriately. In my school district, there is a bullying hotline for which I am a big fan. Yes, its stressful for the kids but I think they know how to protect themselves with either approach. In my opinion, either response would have been dealt with, the same way as an adult.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:26 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,869,198 times
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There are certainly some odd responses on this thread.

I take the more moderate view. Mild bullying might be good for character building. It helps you learn how to deal with harassment and you learn that some people will treat you like garbage because they don't like something about you (usually trivial) or because they can. It is best to learn these lessons early in life.

However, when someone's life is made a living hell, that is very different and that can screw people up for life. When someone is made the high school version of prison *****, yes, officials should step in. The thing is that people who are bullied severely often end up viewing society composed entirely of predators and prey. It is not uncommon for someone who has been bullied to end up becoming one themselves. They get picked on by bigger, older, stronger, or tougher kids and they in turn prey on those smaller, younger, weaker, or less tough kids. Also, kids who are often bullies when they are younger often grow up to be violent and aggressive douchebags when they get older. I am willing to beat that most professional athletes you here about doing violent and destructive things were the stereotypical jocks who went around assaulting and harassing weaker and less popular students. And they probably got away with it because they were the star athletes of the schools.

My point is that to some extent that bullying is a natural human instinct and having to deal with a bully can be an educational experience that will help you prepare for life. However, when it becomes extreme and crosses the line between "_____ is a dick" to "I need to run from ______ because s/he will beat the s--t out me or force me dance around buck naked under the threat of having the s--t beaten out of me" then it is no longer about learning how to deal with the unpleasant people and becomes about being the victim of unpleasant people.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on Earth
1,052 posts, read 1,647,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
why i found your post ridiculous as well as hypocritical is because you stated that one has to survive by dominating others and then state you don't agree with it and that there is no good reason for it. illogical and contradictory much???? do you even know what intelligence means? so those who bullied you needed to do this to survive? lol.

before you correct me, make sure you take the plank out of your own eye. your welcome.
Oh dear your God, that grammar. Your =/= You're. Cap your i's. And lol? Really? It makes you even less credible. I bet you haven't even finished middle school yet.

What makes my post so hypocritical? Do you even know what that word means? Or are you just splashing it in there just to make yourself sound smart?

Natural instinct thought: Bullying in order to dominate and to construct a hierarchy among a particular animal society.
Rational thought: It is a terrible thing to do because people are hurt.

You are against bullying. We get it. Tired statements again from you. Look at it from an animal instinct view point rather than a rational point. All your responses come from a rational point, which means it would be off topic and wouldn't match mine to begin with. Seems to me that you can't read and comphrehend English anyways, seeing that other users understood my point without feeling the need to go off on an emotional rant. You do realize that animals, in particular, monkeys, bully another for fun or to dominate, right? What you don't understand about this topic is that it's not about social reaction to bullying, but whether or not the instinct to "bully" is engrained in the human subsconsciousness.

And it seems to me that you are only reacting to me, when other people are pretty much saying as I am, in that bullying is a natural instinct among humans. From the emotional responses that you have posted, you yourself is subject to the nature of "bullying" as you are targeting only my posts, especially when you are not actually understanding them. What makes me so special? And "taking a plank out of my eye"? That's bullying words right there. You may re-read your own words. There are things in there that only a bully would say. So in that sense, you yourself is a hypocrite, correct?

Based on your responses, it seems to me like your education level is sub-par to mine anyways, so there really is no point trying to convince you otherwise

Last edited by Le Lune; 11-01-2010 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,620,303 times
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Bullying has probably always been with us, will probably always BE with us, and is certainly alive and well right now. Humans are just animals that have taken Nair baths, so yes they have a pack mentality. My theory:

You have three groups: Sheep, Shepherds and Wolves.

Sheep: The targets. Whether because of actual or perceived weaknesses, they are the ones that Wolves go after.

Shepherds: On the fence. They help sheep when they can, but are not afraid to mix it up with the Wolves.

Wolves: Operate in survival mode. Cunning, vicious. You cannot negotiate or debate with a Wolf.

First thing a parent needs to do is determine what category their children fit into. They usually offer this in the form of either coddling and running to school authorities to get legal protection (Sheep) or enrolling their kids in martial arts classes and letting them know that they support their defensive acts 100% (Shepherds).

The Sheep will always be dependent upon someone for their protection. The Shepherds will be balanced - usually of quiet demeanor but capable of bringing out their Wolf side when necessary.

Sheep get no respect from Wolves, but Shepherds do.

Wolves act out of instinct. You cannot legislate away instinct. You cannot bargain or punish instinct. You cannot use "feel good" tactics to cover it up. The only solution is to nail the hide of the Wolf on the side of the Sheep's pen. That's the job of the Shepherd.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:35 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
Bullying has probably always been with us, will probably always BE with us, and is certainly alive and well right now. Humans are just animals that have taken Nair baths, so yes they have a pack mentality. My theory:

You have three groups: Sheep, Shepherds and Wolves.

Sheep: The targets. Whether because of actual or perceived weaknesses, they are the ones that Wolves go after.

Shepherds: On the fence. They help sheep when they can, but are not afraid to mix it up with the Wolves.

Wolves: Operate in survival mode. Cunning, vicious. You cannot negotiate or debate with a Wolf.

First thing a parent needs to do is determine what category their children fit into. They usually offer this in the form of either coddling and running to school authorities to get legal protection (Sheep) or enrolling their kids in martial arts classes and letting them know that they support their defensive acts 100% (Shepherds).

The Sheep will always be dependent upon someone for their protection. The Shepherds will be balanced - usually of quiet demeanor but capable of bringing out their Wolf side when necessary.

Sheep get no respect from Wolves, but Shepherds do.

Wolves act out of instinct. You cannot legislate away instinct. You cannot bargain or punish instinct. You cannot use "feel good" tactics to cover it up. The only solution is to nail the hide of the Wolf on the side of the Sheep's pen. That's the job of the Shepherd.
it's not about getting the respect of wolves. bullies don't respect anyone, they just target those they think they can get away with or is easiest target.

as for being sheep, everyone in society is sheep to someone, in some way.

your analogy is unrealistic and ridiculous. after all, we all have to abide by laws of society. for instance, we don't call children sheep because they are easiest target for adults to abuse them and that is why they are abused more often.

it's also not the job of the 'shepherd'. wth? it's the job of everyone to try and defend themselves along with laws and correct course of action. do you know why your analogy is completely embarassing and out there? because the proverbial "sheep" is all about context. a person can be a sheep/target in one situation among a certain group or demographic but not another. for instance, race might be one of them but not all of them. a theist may be an easy target among atheists and vice versa an atheist a target of theists. and no, they do not necessarily respect eachother, agree, or mix it up with eachother either. lol
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:45 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,662 posts, read 25,625,398 times
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I always enjoy seeing the bullies put in their place. I think we got this halfway done in the election yesterday. Our congress has been bullying the whole country by passing legislation that more than half the country did not want. O. K. Take that vote and do you understand how it feels now? Our turn has come. I don't think we will be bullies, but we will certainly turn some things around; or I hope we do. Oh, it feels so goooooood!
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