Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-03-2010, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,621,557 times
Reputation: 8681

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
...your analogy is unrealistic and ridiculous.

...it's also not the job of the 'shepherd'. wth? ...

...do you know why your analogy is completely embarassing and out there?...
Just the types of comments I would expect from an ovine...but enjoy yourself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-03-2010, 07:38 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,979 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
Just the types of comments I would expect from an ovine...but enjoy yourself.
your reply indicates you can't refute it. touche
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-04-2010, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,621,557 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
your reply indicates you can't refute it. touche
No, it indicates that I deem it unworthy and unproductive to explain my analogy to you.

Riposte!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: :~)
1,483 posts, read 3,307,709 times
Reputation: 1539
Stop using words that I have to look up. :P
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2010, 06:36 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,979 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
No, it indicates that I deem it unworthy and unproductive to explain my analogy to you.

Riposte!
your analogy was embarassing. i'll explain why. wolves are relatively beautiful creatures but human bullies are rather not, so it's a poor analogy and misleading at least.

for instance, i've seen situations where ghetto, uneducated or trashy people are the ones who tend to bully the most. i would hardly consider that the strong dominating the weak or the kind of people that are worth looking up to or learning from. granted, there are people who do admire 'might is right' no matter what.

as for strong and honorable people, they tend to compete along productive and fair lines. that's not bullying though, it's just raising the bar or standards. a bully hurts or degrades the competition in order to come up on top, it's the opposite of raising standards or improvement or progressive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2010, 07:08 PM
 
10,114 posts, read 19,404,215 times
Reputation: 17444
When raising my own I told my daughter to never start anything; however, finish it if she had to.[/quote]

Exact same advice my mother gave me!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,621,557 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
your analogy was embarassing. i'll explain why. wolves are relatively beautiful creatures but human bullies are rather not, so it's a poor analogy and misleading at least.
Ah, OK - I agree with you on that. My apologies to the wolves. When I had concocted this scenario as early research for a book, I hadn't considered that angle - thank you!

But wolves, right or wrong, have assumed the "bad guy" role for millenia.

Quote:
for instance, i've seen situations where ghetto, uneducated or trashy people are the ones who tend to bully the most. i would hardly consider that the strong dominating the weak or the kind of people that are worth looking up to or learning from. granted, there are people who do admire 'might is right' no matter what.
But they're still bullies, right? No matter how beautiful, intelligent or charming a wolf may be, they're still working on animal instinct, and are capable of bringing down a swift death on their selected target. Likewise, your ghetto people are capable of the same thing. How is that not the strong dominating the weak? They might not be strong in beauty or intelligence or charm, but they have the intimidation skills and the physical presence and strength necessary to pull off the bully role.

Quote:
as for strong and honorable people, they tend to compete along productive and fair lines. that's not bullying though, it's just raising the bar or standards. a bully hurts or degrades the competition in order to come up on top, it's the opposite of raising standards or improvement or progressive.
In my analogy, the strong and honorable are the shepherds.

I think perhaps we're looking at the elephant from opposite ends...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 07:55 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,979 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
How is that not the strong dominating the weak? They might not be strong in beauty or intelligence or charm, but they have the intimidation skills and the physical presence and strength necessary to pull off the bully role.
i still don't think you are looking at this very realistically. for instance, just because one "can" bully or dominate, doesn't mean that they will. that is a decision based on a person's values or character rather than because it's a strength. sure, i and other people can easily bully someone weaker or smaller than us but that doesn't mean everyone will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,621,557 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
i still don't think you are looking at this very realistically. for instance, just because one "can" bully or dominate, doesn't mean that they will. that is a decision based on a person's values or character rather than because it's a strength. sure, i and other people can easily bully someone weaker or smaller than us but that doesn't mean everyone will.
I didn't realize that this was a point of contention, nor do I believe you're getting the visualization I'm trying to convey. I blame myself for the latter.

No, of course not everyone that can, does; but for those who do, they ARE the wolves. I'm not attempting to split hairs here with psychological profiles or motivations or the effects of social conditioning - I'm merely saying that there have always been and probably always will be the three classes. The conditions that bring about their position in the pecking order are too numerous to list here - hence, my (proposed) book.

Perhaps your idea of someone strong enough to bully, yet does not, is what I call a shepherd. But in my paradigm that would only be true if they actively look out for the welfare of others rather than passively "not-attack".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 09:17 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,979 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
I didn't realize that this was a point of contention, nor do I believe you're getting the visualization I'm trying to convey. I blame myself for the latter.

No, of course not everyone that can, does; but for those who do, they ARE the wolves. I'm not attempting to split hairs here with psychological profiles or motivations or the effects of social conditioning - I'm merely saying that there have always been and probably always will be the three classes. The conditions that bring about their position in the pecking order are too numerous to list here - hence, my (proposed) book.

Perhaps your idea of someone strong enough to bully, yet does not, is what I call a shepherd. But in my paradigm that would only be true if they actively look out for the welfare of others rather than passively "not-attack".
i understand what you are saying but i think people don't consider all the factors.

for instance, a husband can (usually) easily dominate their wife or "bully" them but that doesn't mean every husband would choose to do that. i think that there is often a misunderstanding that bullies somehow are just stronger when it is just a case of opportunism mixed with the value system which allows for their motivations or actions.

people must remember that in reality, there will always be those you can dominate or bully as well as those who can do that to you in differing contexts, just as there will be those who are weaker than you in some way and there will be those who are stronger than you in a different way. this applies to everyone, even the bullies. with this realization clear, then one can realize that 'bullies' are just essentially acting out of opportunism and usually a lack of ethics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top