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Old 06-06-2011, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,301,087 times
Reputation: 26005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CancerianMoonPrincess View Post
yeah, pop culture has exploited free speech, which is probably why some people feel that "political correctness" is needed. I disagree. I think the spread of PC has caused people to be too sensitive to the smallest insult. I think people need to grow thicker skin and not get butthurt over the smallest comment. So I think that people should stand up and defend themselves (even physically), even if it's "politically incorrect."

Good post!

I also agree with SCGranny about "consequences". I believe that the increasing absence of the fear of consequences will continue to make it more and more difficult for bullying to subside in our children. We have swung from a parental society of spanking and other punitive or disciplinary actions, to one where we can get thrown into jail if we hold them down when they become violent (it's true! A school counselor once told me that restriction of movement is considered abuse!) I've not witnessed the behavior of children improve with the changes. They know what they can get away with.

But bullying exists in adulthood, too. It's in abusive relationships and it's in the work force.

Last edited by Bluesmama; 06-06-2011 at 02:02 AM..
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
1,739 posts, read 1,916,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
I also agree with SCGranny about "consequences". I believe that the increasing absence of the fear of consequences will continue to make it more and more difficult for bullying to subside in our children. We have swung from a parental society of spanking and other punitive or disciplinary actions, to one where we can get thrown into jail if we hold them down when they become violent (it's true! A school counselor once told me that restriction of movement is considered abuse!) I've not witnessed the behavior of children improve with the changes. They know what they can get away with.

But bullying exists in adulthood, too. It's in abusive relationships and it's in the work force.
Another excellent post. But what to do ? How do we return to a society that teaches consequences for bullies ? It seems like it needs to start in schools. Teachers need to be given the authority to spank again. And the bullied need to be allowed the freedom to fight back. Parents need to have the nazi (Ooops..did I say 'nazi' ? I meant CPS) brigade off their back and feel free to return to "spare the rod" (which was how it was intended to be from the beginning).

Regarding the bullying in adulthood, that ones a little tougher, but it starts with the schools sending the clear message to bullies that their dominance and rulership over the weaker will NOT be tolerated. Then ultimately I believe we would have less corrupt power figures. People would want to become police and judges to dispense fairness rather then rule over others and decide their destinies. Employers and those others in "charge" may just be a little fairer and more equitable, more case by case, when enforcing the rules (rather then the current zero tolerance-It's the rules so obey mindlessly or ELSE mindset).

Unless something changes, the human race is TOTALLY screwed.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:46 PM
 
13,511 posts, read 19,281,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
First of all I will say that I don't condone bullying at all. No one should have to fear for their safety just for being themselves, no matter how different they are.

Still, there is a fine line between disliking but tolerating a behavior and bullying. Obviously, physical abuse is bullying. Vandalizing property is bullying. Is the passive aggressive behavior of completely ignoring the presence of someone bullying? Is referring to someone by a juvenile nickname bullying? Is excluding someone from a private activity bullying? According to some definitions, all of these behaviors can be violations and schools, sports teams, clubs, etc. can be held liable if they don't put a stop to them.

When I was younger and my brother would do something dumb to annoy me like blowing a kazoo in my ear, my parents would tell me to ignore him and he would stop. I have found this to be good advice, as generally people that are seeking my negative attention will give up when they realize they will not get it. After attending a workshop on bullying, I am offended that this advice can get a kid in trouble if they do it at school, as even passively ignoring or refraining from speaking with someone can be interpreted as abuse. I think this is B.S. and takes attention and resources away from situations where true abuse is happening. I know some kids don't get enough attention and act out in order to get attention, however negative it may be. By criminalizing a passive response to this, we are creating an arms race where exceedingly antisocial and or vulgar behavior is required for those individuals to get the negative attention they are seeking.
Bullying is what it is...it can't be suger coated...but when you say ignoring and refusing to talk with someone is considered bullying...well in that case the workshop you were attending has got their wires crossed...they've got a screw loose...we all KNOW that's not true!!!
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:10 PM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,190,213 times
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Sometimes I wonder if these workshops are organized by adults who were unpopular kids and who still haven't figured out socializing.

You should have the right to ignore a person. You should have the right to refuse talking to a person. The person who forces people to interact is teaching anti-social behavior with the simple act of, well, forcing.

If the goal is to teach people how to deal with people they might not like, then make a simple rule: You don't have to like this person. You don't have to be friends but just be civil when you do have to interact.
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,862,875 times
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I was the constant "new kid in school" growing up. we moved around a lot and most of the time I had no problem getting along with the other kids in my new school. Yeah, there were bullies, but I was large enough that they normally didn't pick on me. My younger brother wasn't so fortunate, he would normally get his lunch money stolen in the first week or so. The next day I would introduce myself to the thief/bully, they never messed with my brother again.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:09 AM
 
7,492 posts, read 11,829,224 times
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Yes, ostracism is a form of bullying, and there's a difference between that and physical abuse. Both I would imagine still have harmful effects on the victim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CancerianMoonPrincess View Post
In all honesty, yes it is overpayed. And even if it is a good cause, telling adults is not always the solution to bullying. Even if a child were to tell the teacher or parent about a bully, and even if the bully was punished, in most cases the bully wouldn't change his/her ways. They'd try to get revenge and Hirt their victim even more. I say that some kids news to do what my dad did, stand up to them (yes even *gasp* physically fighting back) so they won't bother them anymore. That's how it was for my dad. He was bullied and even if he was a short guy, he ended up beating the crap out of the bullies and they never bothered him again.
I agree in a way that kids would do good to learn how to get bullies off their backs, and the world would be a perfect place if that could happen. However, what actually happens besides the fact that a lot of kids actually get in trouble for defending themselves, is the fact that a lot of victims never learn a right way to defend themselves, and go through life being victims of something they can't put a stop to (you can't punch your boss for bullying you).
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:06 AM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,190,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
Yes, ostracism is a form of bullying, and there's a difference between that and physical abuse. Both I would imagine still have harmful effects on the victim.
I agree with you about ostracism being a form of bullying. From what I read, it was mostly females who did this. However, once a person becomes a victim to it, it makes me wonder the effectiveness of the parents.

It is not in the interest of a victim to force other people to like him or her. Its like having to spend the holidays with relatives who didn't want you around in the first place because its the nice thing for everybody to do.

If my daughter felt like she was being left out all of the sudden, I would try to explain to her that not wanting to be left out is her problem, not the other children's problem. Once you own a problem, you have the ability to solve it the way you choose. The solution is not in the hands of somebody else.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:43 PM
 
1,337 posts, read 1,522,763 times
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QUOTE: "...Is the recent anti-bullying movement overplayed?"

I'd say so. I offer as evidence, hot off the legal blog presses, an example of yet another law piled on top of previous laws, designed to "protect peoples feelings." This law is quite a doozy, though. Perhaps the most unprecedented law of its type in American history, even though it is confined to one lowly, backwards state.

The Volokh Conspiracy » Crime to Post Images That Cause “Emotional Distress” “Without Legitimate Purpose”
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:21 PM
 
8,862 posts, read 17,487,576 times
Reputation: 2280
Here is an example of bullying that resulted in a nice young man's death.

Guilty plea in Tillman slaying avoids death penalty *| ajc.com

The man who threw the first punch in a random fatal attack on slightly-built Bobby Tillman has agreed to plead guilty to murdering the 18-year-old, according to Douglas County District Attorney David McDade and a defense lawyer in the case.

~~~
As I remember this incident--

--Teenagers were having a party

--Uninvited people began to crash the party
--2 girls had some sort of fight and then for some reason one guy decided the next person that came along would 'get it'. It was Bobby Tillman, good student, small framed, nice guy.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:17 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,943,387 times
Reputation: 15935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couldabeenacontender View Post
I think the reason so many parents are against some of these "anti-bullying" campaigns is that many of the schools are stepping over the line ... and trying to package their politically correct thoughts, morals and ideas into the programs.

Telling my son that picking on, teasing, or bullying Johnny ... is absolutely fine. But also telling him that it's perfectly normal if Johnny wants to wear a dress, and have sex with other boys ... is not OK.

That's the kind of garbage they're trying to sneak by parents in many of these so called "anti bullying" programs right now. There's a bunch of articles floating around the net that list some of the obvious agendas that are built into these campaigns, and being pushed on our elementary and middle school kids.
Gay kids have a right to go school and not be bullied.

The same goes for Asian kids, fat kids, handicapped kids, Jewish kids, African American kids, nerdy kids ... what have you.

The topic is about bullying. Nobody is saying that you have be friends or admire a particular student, but that school is for learning ... and in my view it is not okay for a student to be subjected to force, intimidation, ridicule, torment, humiliation and/or abuse.
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