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Old 05-26-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Cincinnati near
2,628 posts, read 4,301,069 times
Reputation: 6119

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First of all I will say that I don't condone bullying at all. No one should have to fear for their safety just for being themselves, no matter how different they are.

Still, there is a fine line between disliking but tolerating a behavior and bullying. Obviously, physical abuse is bullying. Vandalizing property is bullying. Is the passive aggressive behavior of completely ignoring the presence of someone bullying? Is referring to someone by a juvenile nickname bullying? Is excluding someone from a private activity bullying? According to some definitions, all of these behaviors can be violations and schools, sports teams, clubs, etc. can be held liable if they don't put a stop to them.

When I was younger and my brother would do something dumb to annoy me like blowing a kazoo in my ear, my parents would tell me to ignore him and he would stop. I have found this to be good advice, as generally people that are seeking my negative attention will give up when they realize they will not get it. After attending a workshop on bullying, I am offended that this advice can get a kid in trouble if they do it at school, as even passively ignoring or refraining from speaking with someone can be interpreted as abuse. I think this is B.S. and takes attention and resources away from situations where true abuse is happening. I know some kids don't get enough attention and act out in order to get attention, however negative it may be. By criminalizing a passive response to this, we are creating an arms race where exceedingly antisocial and or vulgar behavior is required for those individuals to get the negative attention they are seeking.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:02 PM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,191,907 times
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Bullying the way I know it is an imbalance of power. A person can do something to you but you can not return the same behavior. The imbalance is very clear in childhood when a child with no friends is picked on by one with many followers, not necessarily friends.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:08 PM
 
90 posts, read 115,733 times
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Bullying is probably subjective to some degree. Even then, there has to be IMO a differentiation between slights and persistent harmful behaviour. Even still, I don't get how somebody can be against the anti-bullying movement. We condemn murder and rape for humane grounds largely, or assault, or even telling lies (as actions in general that can hurt others). So why is bullying any different?

I think a lot of people baulk at anti-bullying since it is often seen as being overly PC. IMO, the real reason for this is that it often was seen long ago that children will be brats and it's just a fact of life. I honestly think it's jealousy of past generations that condemns the anti-bullying movement.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:33 PM
 
2,725 posts, read 5,191,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightee View Post
Bullying is probably subjective to some degree. Even then, there has to be IMO a differentiation between slights and persistent harmful behaviour. Even still, I don't get how somebody can be against the anti-bullying movement. We condemn murder and rape for humane grounds largely, or assault, or even telling lies (as actions in general that can hurt others). So why is bullying any different?

I think a lot of people baulk at anti-bullying since it is often seen as being overly PC. IMO, the real reason for this is that it often was seen long ago that children will be brats and it's just a fact of life. I honestly think it's jealousy of past generations that condemns the anti-bullying movement.
I do wonder about the people who baulk at anti-bullying. The ones *I* know believe that pecking orders are necessary.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:41 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,805,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
First of all I will say that I don't condone bullying at all. No one should have to fear for their safety just for being themselves, no matter how different they are.

Still, there is a fine line between disliking but tolerating a behavior and bullying. Obviously, physical abuse is bullying. Vandalizing property is bullying. Is the passive aggressive behavior of completely ignoring the presence of someone bullying? Is referring to someone by a juvenile nickname bullying? Is excluding someone from a private activity bullying? According to some definitions, all of these behaviors can be violations and schools, sports teams, clubs, etc. can be held liable if they don't put a stop to them.

When I was younger and my brother would do something dumb to annoy me like blowing a kazoo in my ear, my parents would tell me to ignore him and he would stop. I have found this to be good advice, as generally people that are seeking my negative attention will give up when they realize they will not get it. After attending a workshop on bullying, I am offended that this advice can get a kid in trouble if they do it at school, as even passively ignoring or refraining from speaking with someone can be interpreted as abuse. I think this is B.S. and takes attention and resources away from situations where true abuse is happening. I know some kids don't get enough attention and act out in order to get attention, however negative it may be. By criminalizing a passive response to this, we are creating an arms race where exceedingly antisocial and or vulgar behavior is required for those individuals to get the negative attention they are seeking.
I get what you're saying. I think it's largely about context and specifics. Calling a kid "gay" or other derogatory names meaning gay or lesbian is definitely bullying. I'm in my 30's so I'm a bit out of the current high school scene, but when I was in school there was a nerdy, reclusive guy in my class everyone called gay. The boys would pretend kiss at him and torment him. Turns out, 15 years later, yep, he's gay. That, IMO (even then), was bullying and should have been stopped, if seen. I think "juvenile names" have to be considered in context.

In 8-10th grades, an upper classman thought it was fun to call me names and stomp on my feet during breaks. I hated him. My friends all spent time in the area where he was so to hang out with them, I subjected myself to his bullying. Years later I wrote a monologue about him and performed it in NYC using his real name. That felt pretty good.

Kids have to deal with so much harassment from jerks at school. Most of the time authority figures don't see anything. Most of it takes place away from them, which means they see only the tiniest fraction of what's really going on. It's imperative that they stomp it out when they do see it.

About the ignoring - I don't think ignoring a bully or a pest is the issue. Again, it's about context. Girls, especially teenage girls, can be cold, heartless monsters. They "freeze" other girls out. They gossip about them in private but completely ignore them in public. It's ostracism and definitely a form of bullying.

Honestly, I have no solutions about how to stop bullying. Some responsibility rests with school personnel and some on parents. How much? I can't say. I'm not a parent, but I did teach school. You can only stop what you see, and like I said, school personnel don't see that much. It's a really bad situation for the kids stuck in it. My heart surely goes out to them. I can definitely say though it does get better.
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:59 PM
 
2,501 posts, read 3,650,093 times
Reputation: 1803
In all honesty, yes it is overpayed. And even if it is a good cause, telling adults is not always the solution to bullying. Even if a child were to tell the teacher or parent about a bully, and even if the bully was punished, in most cases the bully wouldn't change his/her ways. They'd try to get revenge and Hirt their victim even more. I say that some kids news to do what my dad did, stand up to them (yes even *gasp* physically fighting back) so they won't bother them anymore. That's how it was for my dad. He was bullied and even if he was a short guy, he ended up beating the crap out of the bullies and they never bothered him again.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:20 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 2,898,418 times
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It def is overplayed.
I agree that there should be awareness. I believe that programs on bullying and understanding different people can be helpful, but I also believe that kids really need to learn to stand up for themselves. See, the problem we face is that Jack can bully Tim for weeks, maybe years during grade school. One day, Tim has enough and knocks him out. Guess who the bad guy is? Yep! Tim! In reality is Tim the bad guy? Absolutely not! But we have these insanely hippie parents who do not understand ANY concept on reality. Yes violence is NOT the answer... well, maybe not the FIRST or SECOND, THIRD, or even FORUTH answer. But what happens when you exhaust all of your options? I'm not even saying doing anything CRAZY like hitting with weapons lol!!.. but sometimes all bullies need is a punch across the face... yet, parents are so scared that their (bullies) kids might get hurt!!

It's just a total lose-lose situation.
I don't want your kid harassing my kid!
How DARE your kid hit my kid! So he teased him a little, what's the big deal?!
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:18 AM
 
515 posts, read 1,348,820 times
Reputation: 564
I don't think that the anti-bullying movement is overplayed by schools, however I disagree with those who want to enact laws making bullying illegal. We already have laws that prohibit assault and battery and related conduct that involves bullying. When people propose making it against the law to be mean to someone I think that crosses the line. While it's not right, calling people names and spreading rumors about them isn't criminal conduct. It's protected by the first amendment in most cases. If what someone is saying is totally false and malicious then it already should fall under slander laws.

Florida already has cyberstalking laws, and there have been people getting criminally charged for posting offensive comments on facebook. I personally don't agree with that. That's what privacy settings and the delete button are for.

I think a lot of this has to do with the political correctness movement, which goes to great lengths to try to make sure people aren't offended about anything.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,369,707 times
Reputation: 39038
I think there is 'bad behavior' and there is 'bullying'.

Bad behavior describes instances, such as a fight or humiliating insult, while bullying describes a victim who is subject to a pattern of ongoing bad behavior.

Both need to have consequences, but while one is a (regrettably) normal part of growing up, the other is a sign of a damaged personality in the bully, or a damaged social situation where the victim is being outcast by an entire peer group (usually at the instigation of a bully) both of which require not simply punishment, but counseling or other more serious intervention.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:27 PM
 
3 posts, read 3,484 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by occifer View Post
i don't think that the anti-bullying movement is overplayed by schools, however i disagree with those who want to enact laws making bullying illegal. We already have laws that prohibit assault and battery and related conduct that involves bullying. When people propose making it against the law to be mean to someone i think that crosses the line. While it's not right, calling people names and spreading rumors about them isn't criminal conduct. It's protected by the first amendment in most cases. If what someone is saying is totally false and malicious then it already should fall under slander laws.

Florida already has cyberstalking laws, and there have been people getting criminally charged for posting offensive comments on facebook. I personally don't agree with that. That's what privacy settings and the delete button are for.

I think a lot of this has to do with the political correctness movement, which goes to great lengths to try to make sure people aren't offended about anything.
occifer
are you serious? My son took the name calling he told the teachers and the the persons in th office. I myself have went to the school and tried to get something done no name calling may not be bad at first but it is also the first step to physical abuse. My son now can no longer walk on his owen becaue of one of these bullies. I cant wait till they finaly hold some one responsible.
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