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Old 12-13-2011, 05:46 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 29,227,375 times
Reputation: 4005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Ah. So you don't have any statistical ammunition to work with...
Enough for you to have had to ask in a source-novice sort of way where I was getting them from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
...so you are playing the race/class card now. Exactly the weak cheese I would expect from a politico.
So, nothing at all to say about the restrictive history of prime lending standards as against the simple fact of changing US demographics. Nothing about Bush's shooting down multiple Congressional efforts toward safety-and-soundness-related GSE reform. No reply either regarding any of the nine specific aspects of Dodd-Frank that I mentioned. That's not a particularly strong showing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
It was rather obvious by the early 2000s that home prices had already become seriously out of whack. There were many people in the industry and economists who were already beginning to voice their concerns.
Yeah, I already spoke about the rising tide of such concerns. But the Bushies wouldn't listen. They thought it was time to set Wall Street free from 12-to-1 leverage limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
But Frank was still defending the entire apparatus...
Frank was defending the GSE's against suggestions floated around that they should be down-sized because of some grave and impending peril. And when asked directly about that, Treasury Secretary Snow had to admit that no, the administration saw no impending crisis in the housing finance industry. Far from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
...never considering for a fact that the brainchild of Cisneros, et al, had actually made housing LESS affordable. In fact, I remember his public statements and thinking, "Uh oh. He's out of touch, and we're all in trouble."
How many of those "public statements" were actually heard in a Naked Emperor YouTube video?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Here's my question to you, S. Did you predict this meltdown? I did and warned my clients accordingly, all because I understood the contributing factors to it. I'm betting that you were caught flat-footed by the entire mess, no matter how many Wikipedia articles you copy into this thread and claim as your own.
It doesn't appear to me that you have actually understood much of any of the actual history behind the credit crisis. In blunt terms, you've done little beyond rehashing tired and long ago discarded right-wing propaganda memes. If "The Giant Pool of Money" was too much for you, try tracking down the video called "The Crisis of Credit Visualized". It's an 11-minute cartoon, but except for the glaring error of confusing subprime lending aith abuse of subprime credit markets, it provides a reasonable and comprehensible overview of things.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:28 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 10,483,784 times
Reputation: 2897
Calm down the personal characterizations of other posters, discuss content only, not who posts it.

If it continues the thread will be closed.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:12 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 29,227,375 times
Reputation: 4005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Sag - What created the problems with the Savings and Loan industry in the 70's? It seemed over whelmed with high interest rates. I grew up with 3% savings accounts and 5% mortgages. Of course a small house was 30 grand or so.
Much more complicated story from a different time, which was more in the 80's than the 70's, but Volcker's push to very high interest rates was indeed a major factor. S&L's held virtually all the mortgages they wrote for their own portfolios -- a situation that some here have described as idyllic in comparison to selling some off for securitization -- so while stuck sitting on a pile of long-term assets earning maybe 5% per year, once Volcker went to work, they were suddenly forced to pay all their depositors 6-8% per year or more. That's an obvious problem, and the only way around it for many was to invest very quickly in higher-yield, higher-risk assets with obvious long- or not so long-term consequences. Another major cause was deregulation of various sorts. The number of principals required to obtain an S&L charter was reduced to one. In theory, that meant a real estate developer could form his own S&L, then fund his own projects by bleeding the S&L dry, knowing that depositors would (eventually) get all their lost money back through FSLIC. There probably aren't many pure examples of this strategy in action, but it could be found among the ruins of many of the S&L's that simply collapsed over the course of the Reagan/Bush-41 years.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis, IN
67 posts, read 67,144 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_chalk View Post
Your thesis is not that "The government is ALWAYS involved in the market."
What??? Do I really have to quote myself? From my original post: "The state is always involved when dealing on a BIG scale. HOW it's involved differs from time to time. . . . For these companies to be a viable force in the modern day, hi-tech world, the government is needed IN A BIG WAY." (I've had to restate it several times in this thread, and here we go again.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_chalk View Post
You never make much of an attempt to prove that; rather, you take it as a given and then go on to use it as a base for other arguments.
Disagreements are OK, but to constantly see people misrepresent my original thesis statement is a bit annoying.
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