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I challenge you to show anywhere where I attacked the entire law enforcement profession.
The entire argument of my posts is to point out the acts of violence carried out by psychotic members of law enforcement and to support the screening and removal of those people. You on the other hand seem to be some kind of advocate for the bad apples as you call them.
You would rather see their crimes covered up, and silence the critics.
You say there are safeguards in place, and I say the safeguards are insufficient, do you know that large numbers of officers have to "study" in order to pass the physiological testing? I have read studies that say 40% of applicants would fail if they did not study. That means they are lying when they give answers to questions that would otherwise reveal their tendencies.
Law enforcement is not the only profession that attracts psychopaths; you will also find them in large numbers in other professions and positions that wield power over regular people including the clergy.
Law enforcement is where the brutal acts of psychopaths are happening and being recorded in the greatest numbers and therefore offer the largest body of evidence.
But even with an overwhelming amount of evidence of the problem it is still an uphill struggle to get any kind of action on the problem. How will we ever get the pedophiles out of pre-schools and churches if we cannot even get the criminally violent out of the police departments?
Simple. As I have said, how about YOU and all of the anti police crowd become police officers and make the necessary changes? How about that? The job is easy with a huge, fat salary and pension at the end.
How about YOU put your money where your mouth is? You won't. You are a coward.
Insurance companies may have a solution, psych evals.
Quote:
According to the insurer the police department is still free to hire whoever they wish, even if they happen to fail the exam, but it will look really bad for the department if the applicant gets the job and is later involved in a police brutality or wrongful death case. At that time it will come back up that they were indeed a high risk applicant, but that the police force hired them anyway. This is a predicament that the city is obviously trying to avoid, but at the same time they do not want to change the aggressive and authoritarian approach that all police forces in most of the world are now embracing. In fact thanks to the extreme centralization of law enforcement that has taken place in recent years, even if local communities wanted to fix this problem they would be strictly limited by the federal guidelines.
I would like to thank the current and former members of law enforcement who have participated in this thread and helped me to prove my point. First let’s look at some of the traits of Psychopaths and to a lesser degree narcissists and compare how many of these traits seem to fit people who seek positions in law enforcement.
SECONDARY PSYCHOPATHS
Are risk-takers they are daring, adventurous, unconventional people who began playing by their own rules early in life. They are strongly driven by a desire to escape or avoid pain, but are unable to resist temptation. As their anxiety increases toward some forbidden object, so does their attraction to it. They live their lives by the lure of temptation. Both primary and secondary psychopaths can be subdivided into:
DISTEMPERED PSYCHOPATHS are the kind that seems to fly into a rage or frenzy more easily and more often than other subtypes. Seemingly obsessed by sexual urges during a large part of their waking lives. They like the endorphin "high" or "rush" off of excitement and risk-taking.
With the lack of love, there is also a lack of empathy. The psychopath is unable to feel sorry for others in unfortunate situations or put himself in another's place, whether or not they have been harmed by him.
They will deny reality until their victims have a nervous breakdown. Often, the psychopath will turn on the victim and claim that the victim suffers from "delusions" and is not mentally stable.
But these traits -- ruthlessness, fearlessness, charm, persuasiveness, egocentricity, impulsivity, and the absence of conscience and empathy -- need not all be present to the same degree for a diagnosis to be made.
In this debate they have on several occasions used language that reveals there true feelings towards the rest of society. It is interesting to compare some of what they have said to the checklist of psychopathic traits.
Notice the obsession with demeaning others with an unfounded accusation as cowards, and the insistence that the only way to deal with psychopaths in law enforcement is to become one.
In place of addressing the issues directly, or presenting contrary evidence, the focus is redirected to an attack on the person who has threatened them by bringing up the issue to begin with.
“How about YOU put your money where your mouth is? You won't. You are a coward.”
“I think you would fit the classic definition of someone suffering from PPD”
“You are coward”.
"Not a coward, who lies down in a fetal position, and anonomously complains on an internet board. Grow a pair and stand up, in public, for yourself."
“You are totally and completely ignorant to the true facts and life of police work”.
"well, not you, you can't think past an envelope) think in between."
“The issues you cite? Katrina? Rodney King? You again have no clue what you are talking about and no clue what the real facts are”.
“Self centered cowards, such as yourself, who don't have the courage to stand up for other people, in the open, and hide behind an internet board”.
“Oh, that would describe you. Hide in the dark cockroach”.
“Isn't just funny, all these anti police posts by people who are too cowardly, scared, and just ignorant, to do the job themselves?”
“Because they are cowards and/or dope users.”
“You won't of course, its far too easy to sit in your lazy boy, smoke dope, and complain on the internet,”
The psychopath is primarily distracted and impressed by his own grandiose self-representation; most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky.
One of the most obvious signs of psychopathy is the way the individual will brag about his experiences.
“I've been in so many situations of being physically abused (let alone the psychological damage) by persons I don't know, standing up for what is right. Like or not, THAT is a hero.”
I must admit, that is the first time I have ever heard anyone call themselves a “hero.”
It will be argued by people who deny physiological problems exist among law enforcement officers that there is already testing in place to screen out the "bad apples" as they are so fond of calling them to disguise the real affliction.
This is true, there are standardized physiological tests, but they are insufficient to perform the function, and in fact there are even programs available to help the psychopaths pass the physiological exam by cheating! See this website Psychological testing for Firemen and Police examinations one testimony states how it helped candidates pass who had been deemed unfit 32 times!
It is estimated that psychopaths / narcissists make up about 4% of the general population, that number is estimated to be about 10% for law enforcement and about 25% for the national prison population. In short law enforcement currently employs psychopaths / narcissists at two times the ratio you would find in society and at half of what you would find in prisons.
Please do not take my word for this, do your own research. That is the only way we will increase awareness of this problem and begin the process of changing it.
I would like to thank the current and former members of law enforcement who have participated in this thread and helped me to prove my point. First let’s look at some of the traits of Psychopaths and to a lesser degree narcissists and compare how many of these traits seem to fit people who seek positions in law enforcement.
SECONDARY PSYCHOPATHS
Are risk-takers they are daring, adventurous, unconventional people who began playing by their own rules early in life. They are strongly driven by a desire to escape or avoid pain, but are unable to resist temptation. As their anxiety increases toward some forbidden object, so does their attraction to it. They live their lives by the lure of temptation. Both primary and secondary psychopaths can be subdivided into:
DISTEMPERED PSYCHOPATHS are the kind that seems to fly into a rage or frenzy more easily and more often than other subtypes. Seemingly obsessed by sexual urges during a large part of their waking lives. They like the endorphin "high" or "rush" off of excitement and risk-taking.
With the lack of love, there is also a lack of empathy. The psychopath is unable to feel sorry for others in unfortunate situations or put himself in another's place, whether or not they have been harmed by him.
They will deny reality until their victims have a nervous breakdown. Often, the psychopath will turn on the victim and claim that the victim suffers from "delusions" and is not mentally stable.
But these traits -- ruthlessness, fearlessness, charm, persuasiveness, egocentricity, impulsivity, and the absence of conscience and empathy -- need not all be present to the same degree for a diagnosis to be made.
In this debate they have on several occasions used language that reveals there true feelings towards the rest of society. It is interesting to compare some of what they have said to the checklist of psychopathic traits.
Notice the obsession with demeaning others with an unfounded accusation as cowards, and the insistence that the only way to deal with psychopaths in law enforcement is to become one.
In place of addressing the issues directly, or presenting contrary evidence, the focus is redirected to an attack on the person who has threatened them by bringing up the issue to begin with.
“How about YOU put your money where your mouth is? You won't. You are a coward.”
“I think you would fit the classic definition of someone suffering from PPD”
“You are coward”.
"Not a coward, who lies down in a fetal position, and anonomously complains on an internet board. Grow a pair and stand up, in public, for yourself."
“You are totally and completely ignorant to the true facts and life of police work”.
"well, not you, you can't think past an envelope) think in between."
“The issues you cite? Katrina? Rodney King? You again have no clue what you are talking about and no clue what the real facts are”.
“Self centered cowards, such as yourself, who don't have the courage to stand up for other people, in the open, and hide behind an internet board”.
“Oh, that would describe you. Hide in the dark cockroach”.
“Isn't just funny, all these anti police posts by people who are too cowardly, scared, and just ignorant, to do the job themselves?”
“Because they are cowards and/or dope users.”
“You won't of course, its far too easy to sit in your lazy boy, smoke dope, and complain on the internet,”
The psychopath is primarily distracted and impressed by his own grandiose self-representation; most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky.
One of the most obvious signs of psychopathy is the way the individual will brag about his experiences.
“I've been in so many situations of being physically abused (let alone the psychological damage) by persons I don't know, standing up for what is right. Like or not, THAT is a hero.”
I must admit, that is the first time I have ever heard anyone call themselves a “hero.”
It will be argued by people who deny physiological problems exist among law enforcement officers that there is already testing in place to screen out the "bad apples" as they are so fond of calling them to disguise the real affliction.
This is true, there are standardized physiological tests, but they are insufficient to perform the function, and in fact there are even programs available to help the psychopaths pass the physiological exam by cheating! See this website Psychological testing for Firemen and Police examinations one testimony states how it helped candidates pass who had been deemed unfit 32 times!
It is estimated that psychopaths / narcissists make up about 4% of the general population, that number is estimated to be about 10% for law enforcement and about 25% for the national prison population. In short law enforcement currently employs psychopaths / narcissists at two times the ratio you would find in society and at half of what you would find in prisons.
Please do not take my word for this, do your own research. That is the only way we will increase awareness of this problem and begin the process of changing it.
You're obsessed, thus unbalanced. Likely at least a two-time loser. Not worthy of continued engagement.
I thought the NYPD were great! Even had a laugh with them when they walked into Dunkin' Doughnuts and they said how the cliche about Cops in the Doughnut shop was true.
I always found them to be helpful and friendly.
Being a big city copper often pays well and so they tend, at least in Chicago (and I assume in New York), to be regular blue collar guys who look at the work as a good trade, like being an electrician or a pipefitter. Rural and suburban cops are much more likely to be pompous jerks interested in the job for the power and fetish aspects.
Don't tell me about "bad apples", please. A few very "distinct" personality types are over represented among cops. You don't have to be a sociologist to notice that, if you are lucky not to have in person "communications" just watch how recklessly and disrespectfully many (if not most) of the arseholes drive these days.
The only question is - why? Why people with power & control mental "issues" are hired disproportionally over other personality types? Is it intentional (police state is almost here, if you didn't notice) or the number of psychopaths in police departments reached the critical mass, they hire and promote folks just like them?
Those who've been in the military are given preference when it comes to police hiring. Those who want to continue to kill legally might be attracted to the offer. Also, many who were in military believe our govt never lies, like the police when in the military believed they were fighting for freedom, not killing to maximize corporate profits. So, they probably felt proud to have killed so many of the "enemy" group. They were told they did a good job. They'd been told anyone not wearing their uniform is or might be one of the enemies.
So, they go into policing & are told they are still in a war, the drug war, & that war means no rules. If they don't wear your uniform, they may be dangerous. Maybe that means they still think they should shoot scumbag enemy drug sellers & maybe users, and they might really believe they are doing the right thing. It would be nice to be able to introduce them to reality, but if you try to talk to them, they will start shouting crazily & maybe threaten to arrest you if you ever talk to them again.
I say they aren't connected to reality because they only see people at their worst. Also, the nature of their jobs means they can't have any friends, other than family & co-workers, so there's a huge bond with co-workers. They just accept orders without questioning, & they kill more people than expected, due to their lack of medical training as to what might be fatal. If they've spent their entire life in police
force or military & policing, they may think of a gun as their best friend, a part of their anatomy.
They never had a chance to converse with normal people when they are told they are so superior, they shouldn't have to. Some police officer on here said their job description isn't to be friends and win popularity contests. Anyone see a problem here? They're supposed to be public servants, but treat us as their property. Nearly the whole population is wrong, except for them. Even when 96% in CNN poll say marijuana should be legal for all adults, they hate them all, without studying the issue. They just see all these people as trying to end their jobs.
Some of them may have been bullied as kids, so they decided they wanted to be a police officer, as their gun would make people to afraid to bully them. So now, they are getting revenge with bullying anyone.
Being a big city copper often pays well and so they tend, at least in Chicago (and I assume in New York), to be regular blue collar guys who look at the work as a good trade, like being an electrician or a pipefitter. Rural and suburban cops are much more likely to be pompous jerks interested in the job for the power and fetish aspects.
NYC has a problem as mayor Bloomberg told the cops to make fining marijuana users the top priority. Why bother with murderers when you can pick on the harmless?
I've been shot standing up for a complete a total stranger. Someone I've never met before. I've been in so many situations of being physically abused (let alone the psychological damage) by persons I don't know, standing up for what is right. Like or not, THAT is a hero.
Out of these MILLIONS of police contacts, of mentally ill, drunk, drugged, messed up people you have no clue of, less then .01 percent go wrong. Are there bad cops? Yes, there are. Just like there are bad people all across this nation in EVERY profession.
Police officers are recruited from society. YOUR society. They are people.
The issues you cite? Katrina? Rodney King? You again have no clue what you are talking about and no clue what the real facts are. Again, take Katrina. Less then .01 % of the New Orleans Police Officers did anything wrong. However, you are condemning the entire profession based upon this. Rodney King? Sorry. Those officers did nothing wrong and were acquitted in an open court for it.
I could list the number of complaints against police officers which are embellishments. I can also list you a number of police officers who are sitting in state and federal prison, right now, because of a system who no longer tolerates abuse of authority. MANY of those sitting in California's prison system I put there.
There's a difference between condemning more than .01% & condemning all.
Rodney King wasn't subdued enough because he was still breathing. I've seen cops online laughing about him being severely beaten. He was beaten when LAPD Chief was D. Gates, founder of DARE. Do you agree with him when he suggested 50 million harmless Americans need killing? ("marijuana" users)
Our society doesn't want people arrested for using a plant that has a 0% death rate after maybe 10,000 years of use by over 1 billion people. A plant that helps 120+ medical conditions often better than pills.
A plant that makes people non-violent if anything will. A plant that reduces suicides. A plant that helps people control anger. A plant that reduces homicides & assaults. Would it really put the police out of business if it were legal? Police are needed for some things. Phony drug war is trillion dollar waste. Govt is largest dealer, CIA very involved according to ex-narcs at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
Because of phony drug war, US imprisons at 5 times the worldwide average rate. Your idea of freedom? If not, please consider joining Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, if not now, upon retirement? You can join anonymously. The police will never be trusted or respected as long as there is a drug war, as long as police severely beat or kill unarmed people.
What would it take to convince you there are bad laws? Or do you already believe that?
The public is powerless to change most laws, but the police usually get what they want with generous political donations.
You say less than .01% of New Orleans Police Officers did anything wrong after Katrina. City Data says in 2007 that New Orleans had 1,663 police officers. .01% would be about 1/6th of 1 officer! I remember reading about it, police robbing stores. Even if you might be an OK person & officer, I would not assume
nearly all of the million are like you. I do not blame you for what other officers have done. But since we can't know them as individuals, we can't trust any as long as some are bad.
You don't make your job sound enjoyable, so I'll wish you a happy retirement (better days ahead!).
There's a difference between condemning more than .01% & condemning all.
Rodney King wasn't subdued enough because he was still breathing. I've seen cops online laughing about him being severely beaten. He was beaten when LAPD Chief was D. Gates, founder of DARE. Do you agree with him when he suggested 50 million harmless Americans need killing? ("marijuana" users)
Our society doesn't want people arrested for using a plant that has a 0% death rate after maybe 10,000 years of use by over 1 billion people. A plant that helps 120+ medical conditions often better than pills.
A plant that makes people non-violent if anything will. A plant that reduces suicides. A plant that helps people control anger. A plant that reduces homicides & assaults. Would it really put the police out of business if it were legal? Police are needed for some things. Phony drug war is trillion dollar waste. Govt is largest dealer, CIA very involved according to ex-narcs at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
Because of phony drug war, US imprisons at 5 times the worldwide average rate. Your idea of freedom? If not, please consider joining Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, if not now, upon retirement? You can join anonymously. The police will never be trusted or respected as long as there is a drug war, as long as police severely beat or kill unarmed people.
What would it take to convince you there are bad laws? Or do you already believe that?
The public is powerless to change most laws, but the police usually get what they want with generous political donations.
You say less than .01% of New Orleans Police Officers did anything wrong after Katrina. City Data says in 2007 that New Orleans had 1,663 police officers. .01% would be about 1/6th of 1 officer! I remember reading about it, police robbing stores. Even if you might be an OK person & officer, I would not assume
nearly all of the million are like you. I do not blame you for what other officers have done. But since we can't know them as individuals, we can't trust any as long as some are bad.
You don't make your job sound enjoyable, so I'll wish you a happy retirement (better days ahead!).
Seems to me, there were quite a few Katrina officers that walked off the job, to see to their own famiies - I'm pretty confident it was more than 1% - and I don't blame them.
As for your beef against the war on drugs, I am with you 100%, as it pertains to pot. In Alaska they have so many problems with alcohol and domestic violence, what a transformation it would be for pot to be legalized. A lot of the violence would vanish. Maybe a few cops would be laid off!
The men and women of the force have always been a force to run to in desperate times of help, the people who helped keep our communities safe, whose presence was admired and welcome. They were as much apart of us as any employee; federal , state or local. But now in 2012 I think Congress is the only job whose employees are more hated than them. They consistently come off as arrogant, aggressive , abusive , apprehensive and intimidating. They have shown themselves to use unnecessary force on the elderly, children , and the disabled. They try to cover each other's tracks when they have down heinous criminal acts against citizens and in the case of the NYC officer, he was using the damn criminal database to catalogue women he was gonna kidnap, rape, murder and eat. Is their some kind of external force at work here causing this? They are always on edge and ready to shoot too, maybe the environment justifies it? I dont know what's going on.
seldom do we, the public, the citizens, ever receive the bright side of anything noteworthy from the news media. We have to always be on the alert for good news and heartwarming stories about our fellow man/woman and try and tune out the usual and dependable news concerning the economics of our country and the world at large...which as we know can sometimes be disheartening, at the very least.
Well, finally good news at last...God Bless this NYPD police Officer, Lawrence DePrimo. A BIG city copper and a random act of kindness in the same sentence...unbelievable!!!
NYC Police Officer's Chivalrous Act Towards Homeless Man
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Yes indeed...
