Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Additionally, the people moving to Texas will be high-income, not poor.
That must be why Texas is 25th in per capita income, sixth highest rate of poverty and barely beats out Illinois for the number of billionaires per million in population. Oh, and did I mention the 43% increase in hispanic citizens (obviously disguised multi-millionaires). But then there is always Dubai.
Texas is basically 2 countries all by itself. North Texas and South Texas are 2 different worlds. South Texas,especially along the border, is a 3rd world country.
It would be wildly successful, look at Gary Johnson's terms as Governor in New Mexico. He made purely cost/benefit decisions, and the state economy benefitted greatly... until he was replaced by another big spender.
You're giving an awful lot of undue credit to Gary Johnson.
We have become so divided that I don't think non violent secession is possible. Our politicians could not agree on anything. It would be great if people with differing beliefs could have there own areas and government but it would surely weaken us.
That must be why Texas is 25th in per capita income, sixth highest rate of poverty and barely beats out Illinois for the number of billionaires per million in population. Oh, and did I mention the 43% increase in hispanic citizens (obviously disguised multi-millionaires). But then there is always Dubai.
You unfortunately missed my point. Are there poor people that live in Texas now? Absolutely! But if a state (be it Texas or any other) were to secede with a goal of creating a fiscally conservative government, you would see the wealthy of this country flock there, and there is a good chance that depending on the political landscape back in the US, you will see some of the poorer people moving back into the US.
I don't care if it is a blue or a red state, if they seceded and promised a fiscally conservative focus, I would move there.
As far as Dubai, that is an option for sure. I am considering moving my family there, or at the very least buying a secondary home there.
Larry, you must be trolling. Your post is obviously in poor taste.
I thought Larry's post was in poor taste, too. Calling secessionists drunks insults drunks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeraldlambo
I am happy to get off of my butt, and I am considering plenty of areas to move, areas that I feel put my tax money to better use. Would I rather see a state peacefully and amicably secede so that I could stay closer to extended family? Sure! But I am in the fortunate situation where I don't need to wait for secession, I have the means to move my family anywhere I want.
Promises, promises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeraldlambo
The reality is that it is NOT a few "drunks and nut cases" that are in favor of seceding. There are in fact plenty of wealthy people in this country (myself included) that are in favor of secession, however it is still a very taboo topic as this thread proves. Honestly, I think that fact alone should scare the hell out of everyone. If we all move away and take our tax revenue with us, who will pay for the rest of this country?
I can see that you really thought this through. However, secession isn't a "taboo topic"; it's a stupid topic. Get a clue. Secession was settled 150 years ago, which means it's no longer an option. If you and all your fellow secessionists don't like the outcome of an election or that you have to have health insurance or sit next to a black or Hispanic person on the commuter train or that poor people get aid from the government or that same sex couples can get married, you all can leave the country. Hasta la vista! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya, dude!
BTW, how, exactly, would you and your fellow secessionists be able to "take our tax revenue with us"? Federal tax revenue comes primarily from income taxes.
If you have investments in the US, you still have to pay income taxes on your investment income whether you live here or not.
If you leave, you don't have a job here any more, so you won't have to pay income taxes on your wages here ... but somebody else who gets that job will!!!
As for property taxes of various kinds, you can't take your house or your cattle ranch or whatever with you, so somebody else will pay those taxes.
So, for all your claims about how the departure of yourself and fellow secessionists would "hurt" the US, it seems that your departure would actually benefit the Americans who choose to stay. Dude, will you pack your bags and leave already???
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeraldlambo
Also, your thought that Texas would be "bankrupt within a month" is absurd. I am not saying that Texas would lose out on certain income that it has now, I am sure it would. However, Texas would see a HUGE influx of tax revenue from people moving from other areas of the country. Additionally, the people moving to Texas will be high-income, not poor.
IMO, this ^^^ demonstrates that secessionists are much more likely to be "ignorant and delusional fools" rather than "high-income" individuals. Plain and simple, you sound like an embittered, "semi-retired" Tea Partyer sitting in front of a computer screen rather than someone with "high-income" either through a job or inherited wealth.
Services that Texas doesn't provide now that it would have to provide as an "independent country":
Border patrol
Customs facilities
Defense
Diplomatic corps
Maintenance of harbors, flood control, navigable rivers, etc
Air traffic control
Postal service
Debt that Texas would acquire after leaving the US:
Share of the national debt equivalent to its population
Value of federally funded roads, airports, etc
Value of federally owned facilities like military bases, office buildings, border crossings, etc
Value of federally owned lands like Big Bend National Park, etc
Jobs that would leave Texas after "secession":
All US military personnel would be withdrawn
All federal civilian jobs
All civilians working on federal defense contracts
I can see all the millionaires stampeding to become citizens of independent Texas now!!!
Thank you for making a vitriolic post that has nothing to do with the questions asked in this thread, you have added nothing to the discussion.
Thank you for making a post that has nothing to do with the questions asked in this thread.
I thought it was to the point. Secessionistas are a tiny minority of penny ante Napoleons who think they are Aaron Burr. While they whine incessantly about individual rights, they refuse to exercise the actual right and responsibility they have to vote with their feet and emigrate. They really don't want to leave the USA, they just want to run things their way and are threatening a temper tantrum if they can't.
I thought the other post about the NCAA was directly to the point. Football fans outnumber secessionistas by at least 1000 to 1. As soon as they found out that Alabama was getting kicked out of the league, They would dispose of the problem by vigilante action.
As for military action, we are much more sophisticated now than we were in the Civil War. We could just apply the Bin Laden solution to secession. "Cut off the head and the tail don't wiggle long."
I thought Larry's post was in poor taste, too. Calling secessionists drunks insults drunks.
Promises, promises.
I can see that you really thought this through. However, secession isn't a "taboo topic"; it's a stupid topic. Get a clue. Secession was settled 150 years ago, which means it's no longer an option. If you and all your fellow secessionists don't like the outcome of an election or that you have to have health insurance or sit next to a black or Hispanic person on the commuter train or that poor people get aid from the government or that same sex couples can get married, you all can leave the country. Hasta la vista! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya, dude!
BTW, how, exactly, would you and your fellow secessionists be able to "take our tax revenue with us"? Federal tax revenue comes primarily from income taxes.
If you have investments in the US, you still have to pay income taxes on your investment income whether you live here or not.
If you leave, you don't have a job here any more, so you won't have to pay income taxes on your wages here ... but somebody else who gets that job will!!!
As for property taxes of various kinds, you can't take your house or your cattle ranch or whatever with you, so somebody else will pay those taxes.
So, for all your claims about how the departure of yourself and fellow secessionists would "hurt" the US, it seems that your departure would actually benefit the Americans who choose to stay. Dude, will you pack your bags and leave already???
IMO, this ^^^ demonstrates that secessionists are much more likely to be "ignorant and delusional fools" rather than "high-income" individuals. Plain and simple, you sound like an embittered, "semi-retired" Tea Partyer sitting in front of a computer screen rather than someone with "high-income" either through a job or inherited wealth.
Services that Texas doesn't provide now that it would have to provide as an "independent country":
Border patrol
Customs facilities
Defense
Diplomatic corps
Maintenance of harbors, flood control, navigable rivers, etc
Air traffic control
Postal service
Debt that Texas would acquire after leaving the US:
Share of the national debt equivalent to its population
Value of federally funded roads, airports, etc
Value of federally owned facilities like military bases, office buildings, border crossings, etc
Value of federally owned lands like Big Bend National Park, etc
Jobs that would leave Texas after "secession":
All US military personnel would be withdrawn
All federal civilian jobs
All civilians working on federal defense contracts
I can see all the millionaires stampeding to become citizens of independent Texas now!!!
Linda Linda Linda…your post says it all. I kindly ask you to review the posts that I have made on this thread. You will find that in every post I have been polite, even when I don't agree with someone. After all, I am just stating my opinion, who am I to judge you and your opinion anyways?
You on the other hand immediately come out swinging. Why? Because I don't agree with you and therefore I must be wrong, or stupid? All you really need to say is "I don't agree with you" and that would be fine, but instead you attack me. To make matters worse, you imply that I am a racist, homophobe, and that I hate poor people. Let me refer you to some things that I said earlier in this thread:
"Do I agree with a lot of the social and liberal aspects that come along with the freedoms here in America? No, I don't. I might not agree with certain aspects of liberal thinking, but who am I to tell someone else what they do or don't like, or what they should or should not do! I might not agree, but I will gladly accept."
"Just to clear up one thing, I am in favor of secession, but not because of religion or anything like that. My idea of a perfect state is not a "Christian based nation. With laws against abortion, homosexual, gay marriage with little or low taxes rates. Of course no welfare, medicare, food stamp or illegal minority." I am not saying that is your view either LongSlim, I am just stating that it is not mine. My reasons for secession are purely fiscal. If someone shares the same fiscal views as me and can afford to live in the seceded state, then I will welcome them with open arms regardless of their background, nationality, religion, etc. If they don't share my fiscal views, then I am sure that there are states within the US where they will be happy, and I definitely would not wish them any ill will."
There are a lot of things that I can say to refute your little tantrum, but I am a better person then that.
Larry, you must be trolling. Your post is obviously in poor taste.
I am happy to get off of my butt, and I am considering plenty of areas to move, areas that I feel put my tax money to better use. Would I rather see a state peacefully and amicably secede so that I could stay closer to extended family? Sure! But I am in the fortunate situation where I don't need to wait for secession, I have the means to move my family anywhere I want.
The reality is that it is NOT a few "drunks and nut cases" that are in favor of seceding. There are in fact plenty of wealthy people in this country (myself included) that are in favor of secession, however it is still a very taboo topic as this thread proves. Honestly, I think that fact alone should scare the hell out of everyone. If we all move away and take our tax revenue with us, who will pay for the rest of this country?
Also, your thought that Texas would be "bankrupt within a month" is absurd. I am not saying that Texas would lose out on certain income that it has now, I am sure it would. However, Texas would see a HUGE influx of tax revenue from people moving from other areas of the country. Additionally, the people moving to Texas will be high-income, not poor.
Hasta la vista, Baby. The more secessionistas we can get rid of the better off America will be.
It's a taboo topic because if you actually managed it we would be forced to kill you all. That is a distasteful prospect.
As for Texas being bankrupt in a month, I wasn't talking about the government, I was talking about the whole state. They blow hard about being rugged individualists, but the fact is that Texas is getting rich by sucking off the federal tit. Here's just part of the hole secession would blow in Houston alone:
Pull between $4 billion and $9 billion a year out of the economy of Houston and see how long they pay their bills.
There are also 15 US military bases in Texas. Half of them should be closed, and have only been kept open as pork barrel spending, to keep the local economies from crashing. The rest could be supplied from other areas, freezing out all local contractors. There goes Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio and Corpus Christi.
I don't care how rich you arrogant upper crusters are, you are no more than a fart in a hurricane. My original assessment stands: nut cases and drunks.
Hasta la vista, Baby. The more secessionistas we can get rid of the better off America will be.
It's a taboo topic because if you actually managed it we would be forced to kill you all. That is a distasteful prospect.
As for Texas being bankrupt in a month, I wasn't talking about the government, I was talking about the whole state. They blow hard about being rugged individualists, but the fact is that Texas is getting rich by sucking off the federal tit. Here's just part of the hole secession would blow in Houston alone:
Pull between $4 billion and $9 billion a year out of the economy of Houston and see how long they pay their bills.
There are also 15 US military bases in Texas. Half of them should be closed, and have only been kept open as pork barrel spending, to keep the local economies from crashing. The rest could be supplied from other areas, freezing out all local contractors. There goes Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio and Corpus Christi.
I don't care how rich you arrogant upper crusters are, you are no more than a fart in a hurricane. My original assessment stands: nut cases and drunks.
Wow, you and Linda are on a roll today aren't you!
Is it my financial situation that upsets you? The only reason I bring it up is that I could leave if I wanted, though I would rather see a peaceful compromise here in the US. Will I see that compromise? Probably not…not with people like you or Linda spreading hate and propaganda. But that is OK, at least I am not stuck here. Will I leave? Most definitely.
Arrogant "upper cruster? Nah, I was raised in a very poor family, I had to work hard to get where I am today. Nut case? Aside from my prediction of the Lions in the SuperBowl, I am perfectly sane. Drunk? Nope, I stopped drinking a few years back. So I guess that just makes me a normal guy who happens to disagree with you. Huh, imagine that, someone who disagrees with you, but is still willing to accept you and your views even if I don't agree with them. There is a lesson to be learned here in human interaction and humility for you and Linda.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It would be great if people with differing beliefs could have there own areas and government but it would surely weaken us.
