Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And interesting phenomena has happened at our local Walmart that shows that capitalism and the competition that goes with it is usually better for the consumer. Here's what happened. Our local Walmart last month started to make some changes. First, I noticed that some of their prices came down. Their main competition locally is a small regional chain, that has fairly high prices. So Walmart tended to be just under them or the same on many items. But in the last month or so, I've seen some prices come down. Then all of a sudden, their karts, which were typically in terrible shape, all got new wheels and worked fine, almost like new. Then, I went this morning, and they had clerks waiting to check you out. Usually, there were always a couple people in line, and sometimes, even their self check outs had lines. What happened. Costco came to town and is opening this week. Finally they had some competition, so they had to quick slacking off.
Competition makes companies work harder. This is why national health insurance is BAD. If the insurance business and doctors are in competition, they have to work harder for your business. But if there's no competition and the govt. runs the whole thing, just guess what kind of service you'll get. I think we already see that based on how well the ACA roll-out has begun.
Walmart receives literally billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies every year. Every single successful and stable nation on earth has a blend of both free-market and socialist policies, the United States included.
Walmart receives literally billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies every year. Every single successful and stable nation on earth has a blend of both free-market and socialist policies, the United States included.
Yup. The US is a Social Democracy, albeit a dysfunctional one.
Competition makes companies work harder. This is why national health insurance is BAD. If the insurance business and doctors are in competition, they have to work harder for your business. But if there's no competition and the govt. runs the whole thing, just guess what kind of service you'll get. I think we already see that based on how well the ACA roll-out has begun.
First of all, we do not have national health insurance in this country. The ACA is a plan to have the uninsured or underinsured buy private insurance so that taxpayers do not have to pay for people who don't have insurance.
Just like your car insurance is a requirement, but you can get it from any company willing to sell you a policy, you are required to get health insurance, but you can get it from anywhere, including an employer, which is what 85% of the country does.
I think your example is faulty and here's why:
I can go to Walmart or their on line store and compare prices with other stores or other stores on line store and make a decision where to buy my next product. It's not the same as health care, which is not selling a product, but a service and an outcome.
It's not like the hospitals have websites that let you compare prices, or successful outcomes, or anything else you'd want to know to make an informed decision. Hospitals are not selling a lawnmower, that you can by cheaper elsewhere, they are selling a service and an outcome. So are doctors.
Comparing what you can do at a store selling product that you can compare prices on to a DR selling a service, when Drs do not post their prices and outcomes, is not a fair comparable.
You are also incorrect to think doctors are in competition with each other. If they were, they would post successful outcomes and their prices, which they don't. Most people don't even know that a DR visit is being billed at hundreds of dollars for the 15 min. of face time they have with their Dr. They know their co-pay and that is about it. If people could price and outcome compare Drs and Hospitals, THEN you'd have some competition!
I'd bet you most people choose their DR based on 1) If the doctor takes their insurance. 2) If the Dr is nearby and 3) if they get a recommendation from someone. None of that is particularly competitive.
IF America ever has a national health plan, and it is done right, you would see pricing go down because it would take the multi-billion dollar private insurance industry out of the mix. It would take profit out of health care, and remove the insurance company from between you and your doctor, who would have an incentive (cash) to keep you healthy.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Yup. The US is a Social Democracy, albeit a dysfunctional one.
The United States has had aspects of socialism since the moment it was founded. A 100 percent laissez-faire country is an academic concept, not something that exists in fleshy world.
And interesting phenomena has happened at our local Walmart that shows that capitalism and the competition that goes with it is usually better for the consumer. Here's what happened. Our local Walmart last month started to make some changes. First, I noticed that some of their prices came down. Their main competition locally is a small regional chain, that has fairly high prices. So Walmart tended to be just under them or the same on many items. But in the last month or so, I've seen some prices come down. Then all of a sudden, their karts, which were typically in terrible shape, all got new wheels and worked fine, almost like new. Then, I went this morning, and they had clerks waiting to check you out. Usually, there were always a couple people in line, and sometimes, even their self check outs had lines. What happened. Costco came to town and is opening this week. Finally they had some competition, so they had to quick slacking off.
Competition makes companies work harder. This is why national health insurance is BAD. If the insurance business and doctors are in competition, they have to work harder for your business. But if there's no competition and the govt. runs the whole thing, just guess what kind of service you'll get. I think we already see that based on how well the ACA roll-out has begun.
Capitalism works well when done correctly. If people compete on an even playing field everybody benefits.
However, crony capitalism is awful and no one benefits.
Your analogy with health insurance is not good because there is no true competition and these folks are in the pockets of congress. The CEOs of these companies make up to 20 million dollars a year. I don't care if an athlete makes 20 million dollars a year because they are worth it. However, these CEOs do not deserve it.
This is how the health insurance companies make money:
1. The collect premiums from the patients.
2. They reduce payments to doctors and hospitals or deny tests and treatments.
The difference between 1 and 2 is profit. The purpose of these companies is profit and all they do is collect money from the patients and pay for the medical services. These companies do not provide any medical care, they just handle the money. This type of capitalism does not produce wealth and depends on the favoritism of government.
It would be easy to set up health insurance system with a single payer who would simply collect a reasonable fee for administration of the plan. This would drastically reduce cost and eliminate the middle man who in the end provides NO MEDICAL CARE.
Health care is a gravy train for major corporations that contribute NOTHING to health care.
My wife has many years of experience in the health insurance business and working as a nurse on the hospital end of the business. What most of you don't know about the business would fill an encyclopedia. There is all kinds of competition in the health care business. Doctors compete to have good quality care and keep up with the latest treatments. Hospitals compete with each other for business by offering new services, better labor and delivery experiences, etc. Insurance companies compete for business on the individual market and they vie for business in the group plan area by competing against other large insurers, offering group plans to large and small corporations.
Do companies like Walmart get tax breaks sometimes for opening new stores or distribution centers. Sure. That is a result of cities and states completing them to locate in their area and bring in employment opportunities. Competition is all around you, groups and individuals completing with one another makes nations stronger. It makes people work harder, but it also offers a better quality of life in the long run and everyone benefits.
Unfortunately, I think we have swung too much toward the socialism side as a country. We need more of that, not less.
The problem with the ACA is that by government law it forces companies to offer policies that people don't want and forces people to buy policies they don't want to buy. The policies they would prefer to buy, govt. rules forbid. My attitude is, if you get the govt.out of it, things would get a lot better. However, I would be all for the states being able to offer high risk pools for health insurance, just like they do for car insurance, for those who cannot purchase insurance on the private market. I'd even be in favor of some degree of taxpayer subsidy being thrown in to help fund the high risk pool. Either that, or offer a govt. run and financed health system for everyone that can't afford the private system. Govt. hospitals, doctors etc.
My wife has many years of experience in the health insurance business and working as a nurse on the hospital end of the business. What most of you don't know about the business would fill an encyclopedia. There is all kinds of competition in the health care business. Doctors compete to have good quality care and keep up with the latest treatments. Hospitals compete with each other for business by offering new services, better labor and delivery experiences, etc. Insurance companies compete for business on the individual market and they vie for business in the group plan area by competing against other large insurers, offering group plans to large and small corporations.
Do companies like Walmart get tax breaks sometimes for opening new stores or distribution centers. Sure. That is a result of cities and states completing them to locate in their area and bring in employment opportunities. Competition is all around you, groups and individuals completing with one another makes nations stronger. It makes people work harder, but it also offers a better quality of life in the long run and everyone benefits.
Unfortunately, I think we have swung too much toward the socialism side as a country. We need more of that, not less.
The problem with the ACA is that by government law it forces companies to offer policies that people don't want and forces people to buy policies they don't want to buy. The policies they would prefer to buy, govt. rules forbid. My attitude is, if you get the govt.out of it, things would get a lot better. However, I would be all for the states being able to offer high risk pools for health insurance, just like they do for car insurance, for those who cannot purchase insurance on the private market. I'd even be in favor of some degree of taxpayer subsidy being thrown in to help fund the high risk pool. Either that, or offer a govt. run and financed health system for everyone that can't afford the private system. Govt. hospitals, doctors etc.
Most doctors that work in the hospital are now hospital employees. Major corporations have been buying out medical practices for years. And the hospital base doctors such as ER, hospitalists, pathologists, anesthesia, radiologists now work for a salary or a fixed contract.
The corporations that own the hospitals compete for health care dollars to satisfy the investors. In this instance you are correct.
The healthcare industry is by far the largest lobby in Washington DC. And these are not doctors or the AMA. These are HUGE corporations that have discovered healthcare never has a recession.
Why do we need corporations making billions of dollars on healthcare when all they do is collect money from the patients and then pay the healthcare providers. And as I said the difference is PURE PROFIT. And any other option is not allowed in the system because of the healthcare lobby.
Lastly doctors can charge anything they want, but the payment they receive will be set by the insurance company. The reason why healthcare is expensive has to do with the HUGE profits of these corporations that perform ZERO HEALTH CARE. They are simply the middle man.
I grew in the great and mighty USSR and lived there for 38 years.
I live in the great and mighty USA for almost 21 years and am successful and respected HC practitioner.
I apologize, but you all have no idea.
There is no difference between those systems. It's just semantics. Both are great, WHEN DONE RIGHT, just like Julian said.
ANYTHING cam and will be iff-d up by thing common to any system that ever existed - human nature.
I grew in the great and mighty USSR and lived there for 38 years.
I live in the great and mighty USA for almost 21 years and am successful and respected HC practitioner.
I apologize, but you all have no idea.
There is no difference between those systems. It's just semantics. Both are great, WHEN DONE RIGHT, just like Julian said.
ANYTHING cam and will be iff-d up by thing common to any system that ever existed - human nature.
What a beautiful post!
Humans are not that evolved. They are guided by that primordial instinct of survival which worked OK a long time ago. That instinct transforms itself into greed and corruption and that will truly damage any economic system whether capitalism, socialism, mixed economy, etc.
Healthcare is a mess because there are greedy people that do not provide any HC skimming money from the top. This is not GOOD capitalism. This is CRONY capitalism and it creates zero wealth and has zero productivity.
Like I said: I could care less if Bill Gates makes a trillion dollars a year at least he was productive. I don't mind a talented doctor making a good living if he is really good. However, the folks running the HC industry create nothing and they do not provide HC. They just move money from the hands of the consumers into their pockets. This is a sweet deal and that is why the HC lobby s the largest in the US.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think your comparison works
