Is dog ownership essentially narcissistic? (ethics, healthcare, election, elect)

[Trimac20]

I remember watching a documentary, I forget the main subject, but it was speaking about how the grey wolf was domesticated into the myriad of breeds we now know and love. Not merely the physical differentiation and variation, but also how the innate genetically determined psychological makeup of the wolf was changed to suit human needs through thousands of years of breeding. A scientist in Russia had bred ‘domesticated foxes’ precisely by selecting for ‘infant-like’ traits: helplessness and dependency, docility, innocence and openness, and trainability. These traits, of course, are perfect for a creature who is basically trained to rely on a human for the sole purpose of giving his or her master pleasure.

While I do love dogs, learning about the process of how dogs were domesticated made me realise that dogs really are a pack of slobbering, sycophantic people pleasures: to the point where it’s rather pathetic. Dog owners have a narcissistic desire for an animal that obeys their every order and worships the ground they walk on.

Now this isn’t exactly a moral criticism, because one could argue the dogs are happy as they are and don’t know better. And besides, others might say if we have the power to do this to better humanity and possibly the lives of the dogs themselves, then why not. But perhaps we’re stripping the dignity of the animal in a way which is almost an abasement of nature: goggle-eyed goldfish come to mind as a more visually-apparent comparison.

What's your opinion? Do you think breeding animals to love you makes their love somewhat less genuine? Then again isn't all love genetically programmed?

I know this will offend many dog owners: I'm not against owning dogs, I may even own one myself (we used to have 3) in the future. I'm not wholesale criticising the practice but examining the innate ethics of it.

[Oleg Bach]

For people who put dogs above humans it is. For those who treat dogs as dogs and let them be dogs it's normal. I have this neighbor who is a vegan and is so in love with his Great Danes that he would toss ten human infants into a river to save his precious pets. The guy actually hates human beings and is a fool who actually believes dogs have "unconditional" love- when in reality the have unconditional hunger and are parasites...unless they are working dogs...I have two old mutts in the house...If I were to die they would eat me. I love them but they are scavengers that adore rotten things.

[Trimac20]

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

For people who put dogs above humans it is. For those who treat dogs as dogs and let them be dogs it's normal. I have this neighbor who is a vegan and is so in love with his Great Danes that he would toss ten human infants into a river to save his precious pets. The guy actually hates human beings and is a fool who actually believes dogs have "unconditional" love- when in reality the have unconditional hunger and are parasites...unless they are working dogs...I have two old mutts in the house...If I were to die they would eat me. I love them but they are scavengers that adore rotten things.

Yes some people act like animals are all noble and humans are uniquely evil and depraved when in actual fact all our ugliness is part of nature! Humans are part of nature too! Other animals commit 'evil' acts like murdering their own offspring, torturing other animals for sports (killer whales and cats). I'm not saying nature is evil, but it's cruel and it is what it is. Dogs love is 'unconditional' because they don't know any better. Is it really a noble thing to still love your owner even if he kicks you and spits on you?

[SoHoVe]

The domesticated dog was a tool developed and bred to work for/ alongside mankind.

IMHO dogs don't "love" in human terms people just like to believe they do.

Like any living creature dogs lives revolve around making sure their own needs are met, cosequently they show joy at the return of or attention given by those who feed them or could potentially meet those needs and are as a whole subservant in nature.

They are a brilliant manipulation of nature by mankind.

I have dogs simply because I enjoy their antics and fun loving nature and to warn me of danger...again a measure of self preservation on their part that benefits man.

[karlsch]

The idea that dogs love humans is an illusion – it is a human conceit –it is human vanity. The evolutionary line that led to humans separated from the line that led to wolves and then dogs more than 100 million years ago. To think that after evolving separately for all of this time dogs would end up loving humans, and no other animals other than their own kind, is preposterous.

Domestic dogs are a product of human selection, not natural selection. Dogs that give the appearance of loving humans have prospered and multiplied. Gullible people picking out dogs at animal shelters is an example of this selection. Dogs with sappy “I love you” expressions are taken home. The ones with appearances that humans don’t like are left behind to be killed and burned by the tens of millions.

[banjomike]

I've talked to some wildlife biologists; the notion that stone age humans selected wolves and domesticated them may be 180º off what actually happened. Wolves who were tolerant of humans had all the advantages. They ate better, were more protected, and did not have the same amount of stress than wolves who couldn't tolerate close human contact.
Essentially, the wolf that became a dog domesticated himself.

Humans and dogs have been partners far longer than they have been pets. One species uses the other equally, and there is mutual respect, but not necessarily love. Working dogs still often have this relationship with their humans- while they do feel affection for each other. Sheepherders won't hesitate to get rid of a sheepdog who won't work for him, no matter how loveable the dog is.

I've been a dog owner all my life, and was born and raised on a ranch. Dogs do love their owners and vice versa, but in my family, none were ever viewed as a person's baby. Doing so was offensive to the dog and his abilities and an insult to an adult dog's dignity and skill.

It was like that on all the ranches. Most often, the dogs were never allowed in the house. Sometimes a ranching family would own a pet dog who was the house dog, but was never allowed to work. The working dogs were always well cared for, kept healthy, and all had dry and comfortable places to sleep, but were never given 'special treats' or anything like that.
In return, they got to spend more time with their owners than most human/dog relationships, and got to live out their lives doing what dogs like to do best.

[ovcatto]

"Dog owners have a narcissistic desire for an animal that obeys their every order and worships the ground they walk on."

Considering the number of people whose dogs are for the most part undisciplined, and lavishly pampered and care for, I would think that such attributes would be the direct opposite of narcissism.

[animalcrazy]

Interesting thread but my spin on it is that it's just another example of man's ignorance and arrogance. There is a huge greed and irresponsible issue with dog breeding and the ugly side is that there aren't enough people willing to step up to the plate and clean up the mess by adopting these unwanted and carelessly mass produced animals. It sickens me, it saddens me and makes me feel extremely helpless. Joey is a perfect example of someone's expensive throw away toy. Yes the last 4 months were very hard trying to undo the damage of his two previous owners, but he is a joy and I'm already in love with him. Joey wasn't bred to love anyone. Joey was bred so that some one could turn a dime. A despicable practice with so many wonderful pets being destroyed every year because they don't fit the designer bill. My Howie a rather ridiculous looking mutt is the best dog I've ever had. I wish people would get over their need for designer show pieces and look into the soul of something equally deserving of their attention.

[AnywhereElse]

Seriously a silly topic. My two dogs and myself all respect one another for the part we play in our relationship. It is essential that they obey me for their safety as well as the safety of others. In some respects, they are like children since they depend heavily on me to make sure their needs are met but they have a job or two and understand what that is, watching/guarding/companionship. Some people see their dogs as a status symbol that some how makes a statement about themselves. Most just cringe when they see my dogs, "Oh, you have big dogs." and the guinea pig, "What is that?" Pets are just pets for most people and truly a narcissistic makes a poor pet owner because it is ALL about the narcissist and pet care, if done right, is demanding of time which the narcissist has no intention of letting the pets impede the constant "me, me, me". I just don't think a pet could adequately fulfill the narcissistic feed that is necessary. Now, the dog being a narcissist? Maybe. I want to go out. I want to eat. I want a bone. I want a walk. I want to go to bed. I want to go in the car. I, I, I, I......................

[KathrynAragon]

Dog owners have a narcissistic desire for an animal that obeys their every order and worships the ground they walk on.

Apparently this belief is what your question/premise is based upon.

If this were actually the case across the board, your concept might have some validity. However, people own dogs for a wide variety of reasons - some more noble or selfless than others.

For example, my husband and I own two rescued dogs. Both are mutts. Neither is particularly intelligent, and we have never taught them any "tricks" other than how to walk politely on a leash, and how to bring a ball back to us so we don't have to go running all over the yard ourselves while we're spoiling them with attention.

Our dogs are like children to us - we adore them and cater to them, give them treats and "presents" on a daily basis, provide them with excellent healthcare, comfortable beds, nutritious food - heck, we even have a fan outside for them so they don't get too hot on those days that they are (sigh) forced to spend some time outdoors because I have to go to the store or because we decide not to take them with us to the lake...in other words, they're spoiled pretty rotten.

In return, they love us to pieces - but that feeling is reciprocated. We're all crazy about each other, and everyone's happy. We love coming home each day to our "babies," and they love greeting us. When we eat out, we nearly always bring them a doggie bag of leftovers. Their smiling dog faces are the first faces we see each morning (they come to the edge of our bed and stick their faces in ours to wake us up in the morning), and we literally love on them each night right before we all settle down in our beds in the master bedroom. They're large (both are about 70 pounds each), so we buy our vehicles with them in mind, and when we were house hunting, we considered their needs and wouldn't have even considered a home that didn't give them a large, comfortable yard and patio area.

We consider them very nearly our children - they rely on us for their health, their happiness, and their every need, and they are so well behaved (housebroken, don't dig, not big barkers, good dispositions, etc) that BELIEVE ME - they earn every bit of every good thing that we give them so willingly.

Actually, I don't think we're so unusual for dog owners. I know many, many people who feel the same way about their pets (we have a cat too, by the way, and he's just as loved).

So no, I don't think our love for our pets and our desire to have them in our lives is narcissistic or even self centered, at all.