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Again, I can agree with most of this, especially your point about how the two vice-principals should've handled this situation in another way.
This is something that we are going to have to agree to disagree on. Unlike yourself, I cannot absolve women of all responsibility for promoting the feminine form with erotic intent. There are so many examples of women perpetuating the idea of using sexual fantasy to gain male attention. Victoria's Secret models (CEO's of both divisions are women btw) are called "Angels". The models are primped and prepped in erotic accessories with the purpose of intensifying the viewing pleasure of men. Are you going to tell me that the CEO's [women] and models [women] have nothing to do with this? Is it the patriarchy that compels a model to prance across the runway? Or did they choose to portray themselves in this way?
All that I'm trying to point out is that for this dynamic to exist there must be participation on both sides. It takes women models, some pop stars, some reality tv stars to agree to be exhibited in this manner in order for the cycle to continue. Money doesn't even have to factor for this to happen. When young adult women are submitting page upon page of twerking videos, these acts do not reconcile with the notion that men are to blame for looking at women in a sexual light.
I hope my posts haven't led you to believe that I disagree with any of your thoughts here. No matter what women choose to wear or how women choose to portray themselves it doesn't give men the right to invade their personal space in any way. It certainly doesn't excuse men for date rape or any type of sexual assault for that matter. I consider these acts to be vile and disgusting.
I only take issue with the concept that anytime a woman is critiqued on the way that she is dressed or receives unwanted attention (not physical) for what would generally be considered revealing attire, the blame is entirely placed on the men. It is the man's fault that women can't walk around in a micro mini skirt without people swinging around for a second look. As I have been saying, women can wear whatever they want to wear. At the same time it's unreasonable to expect the male population to discern when we're supposed to notice and when we're supposed to act like we don't see a thing. For men to be castigated by women as if they've done absolutely nothing to perpetuate this dynamic is something that is honestly, difficult for me to understand.
To bring this point back to the subject of the girl in high school. It has become so accepted that it is the man's fault [in this case high school boys] that the girl in question has managed to successfully shift the focus from her breaking a school wide rule to placing the blame squarely at the feet of the boys who had nothing to do with the school implementing this rule! I've never been to this high school, but I'd be willing to bet that whoever the boys that she's blaming in her poster are, they had absolutely nothing to do with (1) her not following the dress code and (2) the actual dress code itself. But yet she's managed to absolve herself of ALL RESPONSIBILITY of breaking said dress code. If she wants to stand up against the merits of the dress code and how it is being enforced by the school, then she should say that. I would actually respect that. She chose instead to print out a poster with the intention of shifting the blame off of herself. These days it's becoming more acceptable to shift blame rather than to be accountable for your own actions.
You are a quality poster, and I don't mind at all when people express but a simple difference of opinion in a respectful way, as you have done with your thoughts, beliefs and considerations. (A tip of my hat.)
I could not agree more that blame shifting in our society has been on an upward trend for many a decade, and I might add, with a great deal of success.
I remember back in the late seventies when Dan White went assassin and killed George Mascone, the Mayor of San Francisco, and its Supervisor, Harvey Milk.
Dan White's defense attorney used what has became infamously referred to as the "twinkie defense". Which does not accurately capture that his defense was really oriented around an alleged depression that was said to gave built-up over time and that was claimed to be related, in part, to his sugar intake after a change in his diet had occurred -- Dan White's real defense was that he had suffered "diminished mental capacity".
I thought the jury would surely have found Dan White guilty of 1st degree murder. I was wrong. The jury returned with a verdict of involuntary manslaughter. I knew then that blame shifting and related winds of change were coming on strong in our society.
Still, I don't think the student tried to shift blame from her own person as much as she did to point out two important things. First, that she felt she had been publicly shamed and humiliated -- and we agree that did not have to happen and represents poor judgment by the vice-principals. Second, that boys should be taught that girls are not sexual objects, and I will add that I agree that they should be taught that lesson and in a major way, especially given the sexual overload that exists in today's society
You are a quality poster, and I don't mind at all when people express but a simple difference of opinion in a respectful way, as you have done with your thoughts, beliefs and considerations. (A tip of my hat.)
I could not agree more that blame shifting in our society has been on an upward trend for many a decade, and I might add, with a great deal of success.
I remember back in the late seventies when Dan White went assassin and killed George Mascone, the Mayor of San Francisco, and its Supervisor, Harvey Milk.
Dan White's defense attorney used what has became infamously referred to as the "twinkie defense". Which does not accurately capture that his defense was really oriented around an alleged depression that was said to gave built-up over time and that was claimed to be related, in part, to his sugar intake after a change in his diet had occurred -- Dan White's real defense was that he had suffered "diminished mental capacity".
I thought the jury would surely have found Dan White guilty of 1st degree murder. I was wrong. The jury returned with a verdict of involuntary manslaughter. I knew then that blame shifting and related winds of change were coming on strong in our society.
Still, I don't think the student tried to shift blame from her own person as much as she did to point out two important things. First, that she felt she had been publicly shamed and humiliated -- and we agree that did not have to happen and represents poor judgment by the vice-principals. Second, that boys should be taught that girls are not sexual objects, and I will add that I agree that they should be taught that lesson and in a major way, especially given the sexual overload that exists in today's society
The most important thing she failed.....was to follow the dress code. A very simple thing, all other things would have been avoided if she would have followed the dress code. She is shifting blame and not being responsible for her failure to follow the dress code. Yet, another model citizen
To me she is right. The focus should not be on what a female wears. That signals to boys that their bad behavior is understandable depending on how a female is dressed.
So I guess she should be allowed to come to school butt naked then when its hot out.
A high school student in her junior year, Lindsey Stocker, felt publicly humiliated by two vice-principals and is fighting back. The following article excerpt outlines what took place.
The "judgment" of two vice-principals sounds pretty arbitrary to me. Moreover, there certainly was no need to publicly humiliate her, and vice-principals should also have explained to her why she was in violation of their alleged rules. Further, I like her very sensible argument.
Rules should not be arbitrary and humiliating her in public was unnecessary and wrong.
I'll side with her in this situation.
What say you?
Ten years from now this same girl, now a woman, will sue her job for sexual discrimination when they fire her for repeatedly breaking the company dress code policy. The sad part is she'll win because of folks like you on the jury.
06-03-2014, 12:33 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
The way a girl chooses to dress is also behavior.
You do not need to wear Miley Cyrus shorts to keep cool - that was a lame argument - mid thigh works just fine.
The most important thing she failed.....was to follow the dress code. A very simple thing, all other things would have been avoided if she would have followed the dress code. She is shifting blame and not being responsible for her failure to follow the dress code. Yet, another model citizen
I'm willing to assume her outfit did not met code in some way. I have not read that she disagreed. However, the judgment and behavior of two (no less) vice-principals (no less) was wrong too.
Who and where were the people who were chartered with playing adult?
I'm willing to assume her outfit did not met code in some way. I have not read that she disagreed. However, the judgment and behavior of two (no less) vice-principals (no less) was wrong too.
Who and where were the people who were chartered with playing adult?
How was it wrong? They instructed everyone, not just her, to stand up and she was the only one who was in violation which they informed her of. Even if she would have been called out of the classroom and told this, the rest of the class still would have known what she was being called out for.
Secondly, since when did teachers and/or principals have to discipline children in private? Should a child be taken out of the class and told to be quiet everytime he disrupts the class??
How was it wrong? They instructed everyone, not just her, to stand up and she was the only one who was in violation which they informed her of. Even if she would have been called out of the classroom and told this, the rest of the class still would have known what she was being called out for.
Secondly, since when did teachers and/or principals have to discipline children in private? Should a child be taken out of the class and told to be quiet everytime he disrupts the class??
If you take the time to read through the comments on this thread, you will find there is a ton of agreement as regards my holding that, at a minimum, the two vice-principals should have handled the situation outside of the classroom and out of sight from the other students.
Moreover, several teachers have posted here and noted that is indeed the protocol in their school.
If you take the time to read through the comments on this thread, you will find there is a ton of agreement as regards my holding that, at a minimum, the two vice-principals should have handled the situation outside of the classroom and out of sight from the other students.
Moreover, several teachers have posted here and noted that is indeed the protocol in their school.
I have read the thread and could care less who is in agreement or not. I still don't see need to pull her out of class just to advise her that her shorts were too short when she and everyone else already knew it. When I was in school anyone who violated the dress code was asked to call their parents to bring them a change of clothes and I along with other students witnessed this several times so it wasn't done in private. I have also witnessed teachers addressing other forms of misbehavior in front of others. Nothing strange or new. Teens now a days have a sense of entitlement and feel they are owed something and that rules are made to make them miserable.
I have read the thread and could care less who is in agreement or not. I still don't see need to pull her out of class just to advise her that her shorts were too short when she and everyone else already knew it. When I was in school anyone who violated the dress code was asked to call their parents to bring them a change of clothes and I along with other students witnessed this several times so it wasn't done in private. I have also witnessed teachers addressing other forms of misbehavior in front of others. Nothing strange or new. Teens now a days have a sense of entitlement and feel they are owed something and that rules are made to make them miserable.
Agreed.
And, again, I will point out the we have only heard the student's description of this and I've yet to hear how the principles actually addressed the situation. Many a student will feel humiliated simply because they know they are in the wrong and got caught. Now who is the true cause of this "humiliation" - The principal or the student who actually was in the wrong?
The root word for humiliation is humility. Some of these kids need to know, experience, and embrace it, or suffer even greater later on in life.
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