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In my original post, I had wondered if the girls had counsel when were they questioned by law enforcement.
Quote:
"A 12-year-old waukesha girl charged with trying to fatally stab a friend needs a mental health evaluation as soon as possible, her attorney said tuesday.
Anthony cotton spoke with the milwaukee journal sentinel shortly after visiting his client, morgan geyser, for about an hour tuesday afternoon.
"I'm basing that on my years of experience interacting with thousands of clients," he said. "i believe she has those needs."
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"Cotton said he plans to ask waukesha county circuit judge michael bohren to move the case to children's court. District attorney brad schimel has said he would oppose that move.
Cotton said it was too soon to know whether there would be any other pretrial motions, such as challenges about the girls' statements to police. "we don't yet know the circumstances," he said, other than that neither girl had a lawyer present."
I have no idea why the two girls were not represented by counsel. And it doesn't sound like the parents were present either, though they night have been.
It's a maze bright move to obtain counsel for yourself or anyone in your family.
Thanks for all the resources! I saw Heavenly Creatures too but did not know about the other options. Think the Simpsons also parodied it with Lisa in an episode though I'm fuzzy on the details, I remember LOLing at the dark-haired caricature with British accent. I thought of the case particularly in reference to this one, because of the imaginary worldbuilding Hulme and Parker did together along the way.
I think they should be tried as juveniles and kept within the juvenile justice system.
However, I think custody for the next six years until they turn age 18 is appropriate. These girls have lost the right to live at home with their families through their violent actions.
^^^ THAT. I read some direct quotes from one of the girls. She sounded psychotic. I find it hard to believe a 12-year-old is sophisticated enough to fake schizophrenia. They both need serious psych evaluations.
In any case, I don't think any 12-year-old should be tried as an adult. But they do need to be removed from the parental home because, obviously, they weren't getting enough supervision. And they need custody with close, professional supervision.
There is something very wrong with someone who would take months to plan an attack like this and then viciously stab another person 19 times no matter how old they are. The victim didn't die, but it was their intention that she did. They meant to kill her. I think some mental illnesses are just like a diagnosis of terminal cancer. There is NO recovery. How can we ever be certain it's safe to let these girls back into society? What if they hurt or kill someone once they are released? What if the person they hurt or kill is someone you love? I'm not willing to take that chance. I don't care if they are in jail or in a mental institution or if they are tried as juveniles or adults, but I don't want them living among us - ever.
There is something very wrong with someone who would take months to plan an attack like this and then viciously stab another person 19 times no matter how old they are. The victim didn't die, but it was their intention that she did. They meant to kill her. I think some mental illnesses are just like a diagnosis of terminal cancer. There is NO recovery. How can we ever be certain it's safe to let these girls back into society? What if they hurt or kill someone once they are released? What if the person they hurt or kill is someone you love? I'm not willing to take that chance. I don't care if they are in jail or in a mental institution or if they are tried as juveniles or adults, but I don't want them living among us - ever.
But you don't have that option because even if they are sentenced as adult offenders, the crime they committed is attempted murder. They will serve a term of years and be released. My feelings are that the juvenile justice system is a better place to try to reform them until they inevitably must be released.
We can't just lock up everyone we don't like for life because the state legislature sets penalties for different offenses. That and the parole board determines how long an adult offender stays incarcerated.
Exactly. There are other 12 year olds who have been tried as an adult. Wisconsin states that Age 10 is the minimum age that someone can be tried as an adult. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They are not insane. Try them as adults, and throw away the key.
What kind of MORON judge would try ANY elementary school age person, period? I'm pretty sure trial as an adult is for people within a FEW YEARS of an adult (read: about 15 or older) for severe crimes. No 10 year old is mature enough to comprehend their actions as an adult. I don't even think 10 year olds should be given criminal penalties, period. Any judge that tries a 10 year old as an adult needs to be disbarred. 10 year olds are KIDS. Not adolescents, KIDS. 12 year old might be a borderline adolescent.
As for these 12 year olds, what they did was horrible, but I can't begin to understand where the people saying to treat them as if they were 18 are coming from. If they were 15, I could agree with them. If someone is an ADULT - or even high school aged - and stabs someone 19 times, I say put 'em in jail for a long time - maybe 19 honest to goodness years. But 12 is NOT cognitively an adult or EVEN CLOSE. 12 year olds should know right from wrong, but it's a lot more complicated than that. 12 year old brains are wired far differently than adult brains or even 15 year old brains.
There have been numerous studies indicating that trying children under 15 as adults makes things worse, makes them MORE likely to return to crime. But so many people are glued to the idiot box that blares "JUVENILE CRIME! JUVENILE CRIME!" and get lost on what the word "juvenile" means. Children don't belong in the adult criminal system. It's not made for them.
It is true that a 12 year old who would stab someone does have something wrong with them. I'm not suggesting "slap them on the wrist and let them go home". They need to be punished pretty severely. But at their age, they are CURABLE. The focus needs to be on rehabilitation, not retributive justice. There is NO room for retribution when the defendant is a child.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-07-2014 at 06:08 AM..
Reason: Removed font color
who needs al-qaeda when you have that cute 12 year old next door who will stab you or shoot you if you look at her the wrong way.I'm not kidding I fear young people more and more every day ,in the old days stories like this were very rare, but now they are becoming more and more common.
A little encouraging news in this whole sad and sorry tale: the young girl who was attacked is reported to be out of the hospital and at home now. She is walking, playing with her pets, and enjoying being with her family. However, she will need a lot of counseling to cope with this inexplicable horror which happened to her. But at least, her physical recovery is well under way.
I give 0 cares about their upbringing, age, or mental state.
They committed a heinous, violent act against an innocent child.
Why are you all trying to figure out their mental state? It's a moot point and was a moot point when they started taking about their plan.
While I am American, i just notice from traveling, Americans want reasons why xyz occurred and are forever trying to fix what's forever broken. The other countries seem to not care- you commit the crime, you do the time, your age is not considered.
These monsters are not worthy of the attempt to redeem. Stop playing savior cause it ain't working, people.
The sheer fact that people are more concerned about the killers *yes, they are essentially killers* than the victim AND future victims is absolutely sickening to me.
All societal limitations and rules, IE, can't drink or vote until this age are absolutely non factors when someone under 18 attempts or commits MURDER people.
Wow.
I must ask again, why are you all so hung up on trying to use the 'undeveloped brain' theory on these monsters?
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dangerous teens
