Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are certainly complexities. To a lot of white southerners who were not slaveowners (75% of them) they felt the war was being fought to enrich the already rich slaveowners, a "rich man's war."
It's not so much the Civil War itself, but what happened afterward and who appropriated that flag - very racist elements.
The very notion of one national flag for the Confederacy goes against its values anyway.
So much for keeping it civil and well thought out.
Until the effort to outlaw segregation got into high gear (around 1960), the use of the term "colored" had no meaning other than to define a differentiation which, at the time, was recognized in legal statutes. We view it as wrong today, but at the time, it was a legal classification -- nothing more. I was around in those times, albeit just out if the primary grades, and I can attest to this.
Then around 1968-69, one of the major syndicated political cartoonists ran a feature showing a militant in the mold of H. Rap Brown or Stokeley Carmichael; The dialogue ran something like this:
(1) As a matter of racial pride and dignity, we want to be recognized simply as "blacks"
(2) this term replaces the term "colored people",
(2) which replaced the term "African",
(4) which replaced "darkies",
(5) which replaced "blacks"
The politically Correct language has changed since then, and will change again, because the purpose of the exercise is to stereotype anyone beyond a certain age as "un-hip" -- but only if they are white or otherwise certifiably non-"progressive".
Take a closer look, for example, at African-American cinema (at least, what hasn't been locked away) prior to 1960; you'll find that a lot of it has disappeared, or is not allowed to be broadcast. It would fly in the face of history as revised by those who obviously know better than we mere mortals.
I'm not particularly concerned with or interested in "pop culture"; but I was "going on twenty" when the tensions of the late Sixties made it clear that it was time to correct some errors and omissions. And I can recall some of the people who had toiled in a backwater of the entertainment world who, at that time, were suddenly moved a little closer to the spotlight -- LaWanda Page, Whitman Mayo, Slappy White, Moms Mabely, Pigmeat Markham. and many others. It showed something about the better side of human nature that when one of these people stepped onto the stage of a live filing of a sitcom like "Sanford and Son", the audience recognized the unpaid debt. But to a more astute viewer with a knowledge of the history involved, the subtle hand of the censor could also be recognized.
So let's take a closer look as to just who is trying to lead whom around by the nose.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 08-05-2014 at 08:29 PM..
Displaying a flag is racist? LOL okay. I guess our PC society has been driven to believe a flag means you're a racist who hates colored folk
But hey, it's better than pretending to be open minded
The Confederate flag was used to unite the South to fight against the end of slavery. It was also used in the South to protest against the end of Jim Crow. Can you not understand why Southern blacks don't see the confederate flag as a friendly thing?
Please don't say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, because then you will have to explain what was the underlying reason other than slavery. If the South decided to end slavery, would they have gone to war, at great cost?
Last edited by Oldhag1; 08-06-2014 at 05:42 AM..
Reason: Removed moderator's note from quote
And certain white ethnic groups have faced racism and discrimination. One form or type of racism is not any worse than another
The only group which can lay the same claim to systematic oppression in the USA, as can black Americans, are the Native Americans, and maybe the descendants of the Mexicans who lived in lands conquered by the USA. For most others the first immigrant generation endured some bias, and subsequent generations moved forward once they became less "foreign".
Black Americans aren't an immigrant group, given that almost all are descended from people who were living in the USA when it was still 13 British colonies. And had their culture and identity forcibly stripped from them.
Good Grief. The United States of the Offended I am living in. I am a northern new england yankee. And I have lived in the south where southerners hated me. And I couldn't care less whether anyone flew a rebel/confederate stars and bars.you.
I wonder how you would react if you saw the Nazi flag waving on the streets of American towns. That flag stands for evil, just as the Confederate flag does.
I don't know if you know this but EVERY black American who is 55 and over (or who knows some one who is) knows of a time when that flag sent shivers of fear through their bones. If they didn't live in the South they had relatives who did, and they had to be very careful when they went down South to visit them. Those responsible used this Confederate flag to symbolize their brutality. The KKK loved it.
Fighting a war for independence to keep slavery alive and kicking is more like it. I hope you inferred the "unjust" part was on those fighting for the independence and the right to keep slavery. And the independence part was more a rebellion than anything since there never was a right to secession via legally in the Constitution. The only way out was thru revolution.
And let us recall that it isn't just slavery. It was Jim Crow. Indeed the use of that flag was beginning to die out until the Civil Rights movement revived it. Just as it was used to galvanize the South to fight to continue slavery, it was used to galvanize the South to fight to continue Jim Crow.
For those who doubt, what flag did KKK marauders most often used in their savage attacks?
The Confederate flag=slavery-Jim Crow. If this is how the South wishes to be defined then all power to them. I do know that Germany certainly doesn't hold on to the Nazi flag. They have gotten over that shame by dumping all the symbols linked to it. Apparently the South wistfully pines for that era when blacks were subjugated and oppressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
Never mind that slavery still existed in various other parts of the world, d.
By 1865 slavery had just about ended every where in the Western world except Brazil and Cuba. I don't think that any one in the USA emulated those tropical lands.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 08-06-2014 at 05:30 AM..
Reason: Merge
The Confederate flag was used to unite the South to fight against the end of slavery. It was also used in the South to protest against the end of Jim Crow. Can you not understand why Southern blacks don't see the confederate flag as a friendly thing?
Please don't say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, because then you will have to explain what was the underlying reason other than slavery. If the South decided to end slavery, would they have gone to war, at great cost?
Do you know that the first draft law was passed during this time? The Conscription Act of 1862. in some New York newly arrived immigrants were actually scammed into service right off Ellis island.
People had little taste for killing after the initial war fever died down. It's rarely been in the interests of the common man to fight rich people's wars for them.
Hey as a Northerner, coming to work in one of the most backwoods towns close to me in Southwest Florida..
Yeah the confederate flag is pretty much a sign of Southern Pride... Depending on the people or persons displaying it..
Southern Pride is one thing.. I can appreciate that..
It's also used to display a hatred of race and of sexual orientations..
I'm not going to mention the town.. It's changed in the 20 years since I worked there...
The black folk were actually confined to the "other side of the railroad tracks"
A favorite Friday night pastime was rolling Mexicans (beating and robbing)
I heard this from working with teenagers, they learn this stuff from Daddy..
One of these kids was the cheif of police's son..
Sure they could shop in town, there was a huge uproar when a black family wanted to buy a piece of land in the Town proper.. They were from out of state... It was in the newspaper... I'm not about to badmouth the town as it has progressed a bit..
I see folks sometimes in cars, pickups, here in my county now... Sorry but I don't know them dont want to..
They have PVC flag poles in ther bumpers... Think the presidents motorcade... Confederate flags..
Pickups have full sized flags waving in the back...
They are racist, homophobic and proud...
If that is southern pride... It's a disgrace..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
