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I don't like what it represents. It represents a society that enslaves it's citizen and it's something I can't agree with. Slavery was a large part of the Civil War, no matter how you slice that pie. I hate when people get all technical. It's like when we have companies that don't want ''regulation'' in certain countries because they have to make safer factories.
Of course, I wonder what the reaction will be if black people started wearing the flag in a large proportion. Been curious about this.
We cannot say the intent of peoples heart that display this flag. Considering that there are no longer any survivors left from the Civil War, I see no reason to fly it. It can't possibly mean anything positive to people today. The South was wrong, and we're ALL better off that they lost.
I am getting SO tired of hearing that displaying the Confederate Flag is racist. I am an 18 year old black northerner from Philadelphia, and I believe that the Confederate Flag is just a show of Southern pride. I do not get intimidated, nor do I shout "racism" when I see one or somebody displaying one. There may be some racists who use the flag to promote their own racist agenda, but that does NOT mean that the flag itself is a racist flag. The only thing that those aforementioned racists are doing is diminishing the historical value of that flag, which is more about rebellion than racism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerguy
A person wearing a Malcolm X shirt is not displaying racism. Malcolm X was simply a historical figure who, along with others, attempted to affect change. I was born in the south and most of my ancestors came from the deep south, some were slaveholders. The Confederate Flag is not part of my history. It's a part of the history of a country and institution that have been gone for well over a century. Time to move on. Leave that old baggage behind and move on to better things. The Confederate Flag has nothing to do with me.
An old emblem or object or whatever that stood for racism or anything else may still hold those connotations for many. Think about it: Slavery was not so long ago. There were still former slaves alive in my lifetime and Jim Crow happened in my lifetime. Just because something doesn't offend you, doesn't mean it won't offend others.
And the truth of the matter is, if you study history impartially, most, if not all, racism in the US stems from whites--through official and unofficial policies and through social constructs. Just like some Blacks still harbor offense at the Confederate Flag and such, some whites still promote racism, either covertly or overtly.
I agree with you--it shouldn't happen. It's ridiculous and if everyone focused all that energy on something positive, imagine where we could be. And I also agree with you that we will never get past it.
First of all, are you kidding me? Malcolm X was totally racist! He said that white people were "devils", and that black people need to go back to Africa to create a separate state for blacks. He recanted much of this later on in his life before his assassination, but what he said was very much racist.
Also, WHO CARES if it offends someone else? I am getting tired of the PC society that we live in today. We are so afraid of offending someone else that we create new terms. For example, how did "illegal alien" get morphed first into "nonresident alien" to "dreamer"? Neither term takes away from the fact that they should not be in this country, but we are so afraid of offending the illegals that we create new terms to dance around the old ones.
Hm....for some reason my posts are mysteriously deleting. Someone's not liking what I'm saying.
I'll say it again. It is not a symbol of southern pride as that was a faction/state/whatever you want to call it. Technically they were rebels. The Confederate flag, in my opinion, is just for people who likes to hold on to some past that never existed. State rights? Pfft. States still need a limited form of power. If you let states get too powerful, then some other problems are going to start creeping up.
Like I said earlier, the same people that seem to glorify the U.S. Confederacy are the same ones don't like when other people fly another flag of another country on their porch (" 'murica").
But humans give objects power. They give the bible power. They give dollar bill power (remeber or financial system is backed by trust). The only way to take that power away is to embrace that symbol to the point it becomes normal.
Let's assume Kanye keeps using the Confederate flag and eventually it's a pop culture thing. I'm sure many defending it now would no longer want to use it.
Hm....for some reason my posts are mysteriously deleting. Someone's not liking what I'm saying.
I'll say it again. It is not a symbol of southern pride as that was a faction/state/whatever you want to call it. Technically they were rebels. The Confederate flag, in my opinion, is just for people who likes to hold on to some past that never existed. State rights? Pfft. States still need a limited form of power. If you let states get too powerful, then some other problems are going to start creeping up.
Like I said earlier, the same people that seem to glorify the U.S. Confederacy are the same ones don't like when other people fly another flag of another country on their porch (" 'murica").
But humans give objects power. They give the bible power. They give dollar bill power (remeber or financial system is backed by trust). The only way to take that power away is to embrace that symbol to the point it becomes normal.
Let's assume Kanye keeps using the Confederate flag and eventually it's a pop culture thing. I'm sure many defending it now would no longer want to use it.
LOL. HE says "technically, they were rebels" right after saying "I hate when people get all technical" Make up my mind, please.
LOL. HE says "technically, they were rebels" right after saying "I hate when people get all technical" Make up my mind, please.
Au contraire. I said when ''people''. Meaning everybody other than me. I'm a great candidate for a preacher/politician.
But I meant it in the textbook definition of rebels.
Of course the bigger problem is whether or not the Civil War was about state rights or the moral issue of slavery. Which affects how one views the Confederate flag.
Some say Lincoln put the rebels down because of the problems it would create rather than the moral ''rightness'' of slavery.
I need to travel back in time April 15th, 1865 in the morning.
It's the confederate battle flag. They created it because their regular flag was easily mistaken for the northern battle flag.
No one would argue that the swastika flag is a hate symbol. The confederate flag's meaning is more ambiguous.
A lot of people, not all of them southrons, call is symbol of pride or regional heritage. A lot of southrons died for it and much of their territory was laid waste. They don't want to forget it. And there was and is a southern culture that is not tainted by slavery and is worth preserving.
On the other hand, I do believe many blacks consider it offensive in the same way the swastika is offensive to Jews. (They can both be offensive to other people, but not in the way they are to those two groups.) And as far as the Civil War goes, it was fought over slavery, pure and simple. Enlisting states rights as a cause employs a noble theory to justify a dubious endeavor.
I can see both sides on this one. But I'll never display or acknowledge the confederate flag myself.
It's the confederate battle flag. They created it because their regular flag was easily mistaken for the northern battle flag.
No one would argue that the swastika flag is a hate symbol. The confederate flag's meaning is more ambiguous.
A lot of people, not all of them southrons, call is symbol of pride or regional heritage. A lot of southrons died for it and much of their territory was laid waste. They don't want to forget it. And there was and is a southern culture that is not tainted by slavery and is worth preserving.
On the other hand, I do believe many blacks consider it offensive in the same way the swastika is offensive to Jews. (They can both be offensive to other people, but not in the way they are to those two groups.) And as far as the Civil War goes, it was fought over slavery, pure and simple. Enlisting states rights as a cause employs a noble theory to justify a dubious endeavor.
I can see both sides on this one. But I'll never display or acknowledge the confederate flag myself.
I'm still curious as to who nobody can see the Confederacy as a symbol of hate or to a less extent slavery.
How could not not be on the same level as the Nazi's extermination campaign? I think the only thing that makes a difference is that blacks were considered property and thus had value while Jews had no apparent value.
This issue, as well as many other issues pertaining to the war of Northern Aggression, or Lincoln's War, or the War to Prevent Southern Independence, pick your title, have been debated and explained here before. Many, many times. After a rather quick perusal of the thread, it appears that my northern cousin from Philadelphia has the most intelligent insight.
African slaves were delivered to the shores of the US on ships flying the stars and stripes, NOT the stars and bars. Yes, folks, slavery was also alive and well in the northern states during this time. In fact, among the last states to apply the 13th amendment was Rhode Island. The Emancipation Proclomation did nothing to free anyone. Unfortunately for Bubby, the technicalities are how laws are judged. The war was started to end secession. Secession was brought on by the moral usurpation of the rights of the southern states. I don't have time to teach the entire lesson today, so I encourage all y'all to do some research of the Tom DiLorenzo kind, not the Doris Kearns Goodwin type.
If secession was illegal and unconstitutional, the how was the US born? Slightly off topic, but very important as it relates to the topic.
Honestly, most of my redneck cousins down here have less that considerable knowledge on the subject. They fly the flag because they love that it pisses you off. They are all terrified that Bloomberg will move south and make the entire region a designated victim zone. Fly your flag, I say, no matter which one it is. If I will be forced to tolerate the rainbow flag, the mexican flag, or any flag of offense to me, then why can't you suck it up and endure the devastating effects of glancing at my stars and bars?
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