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Old 08-06-2014, 07:00 PM
 
2,776 posts, read 3,599,657 times
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Not sure if this was brought up, but there were something like a dozen "Confederate flags".

 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:04 PM
 
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For some, the flag is simply southern pride. It doesn't mean you believe in inferiority/superiority or that you hate a particular race or that you want slavery to happen again.

It could simply mean that you're proud to be from the south or that you're proud of having blood ties to some historical figure who just so happened to have been a confederate.

The sins or accomplishments of your ancestors are not those to apologize or feel ashamed for, nor are they to celebrate.
But that doesn't mean you should feel ashamed of whatever rich history you come from.

This is part of why I feel that slavery and teachings from WWII should be omitted from the curriculum in the US. If a child want to research and come to a conclusion themselves, let then do so. They would be able to think for themselves on topics like this.

Perhaps it's all in how you perceive a piece of cloth.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:08 PM
 
Location: The City of Brotherly Love
1,304 posts, read 1,236,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Hmm, you are pretty young. You might want to talk to someone about your grandparents' age who might have a very different take on this, who lived through the Jim Crow era.
I actually do, and I talk to him often. My grandfather was born on August 9, 1932 in Akien, SC. He served in a military just recently segregated by color. He lived through the Civil Rights Movement, its aftermath, and how it affects the black community today. Many members of my family members do not like to engage with him because he has the whole "You can't do that since you are black", "The white man is holding the black race down", and "the white man enslaved us; therefore, he owes us reparations" attitude. Unlike the others, I sit and listen intently. Why? Not only because I have been listening to his stories since I was a young boy, but also because it is an opportunity for education. Books can give a lot of information, but hearing it from someone who has actually been there is a great opportunity. Also, his talks about the past give me a great sense of pride in being American. His talks show me the true extent to which this country has changed. I don't know if Catholic schools were segregated, but back in my grandfather's day, a lot of the white people who I call friends would probably have never talked to me. I have been over to their homes, meet and talked with their parents, and have been to their parties. At the moment, I am an honor student at my college. That would have been nearly impossible to do back then. I am even considering transferring to the University of Alabama, which was segregated until 1963!

Also, although I am young, I take it upon myself to stay informed. People fought and died so that I could attain a quality education, and I respect that. I try to pay tribute to those people by learning all that I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
I completely agree with this. It's amazing the amount of people on here who have no problem being offensive to others. They revel in it, they take great pride & joy in it. It certainly does say something about their character, it says that they complete lack any character. Everyone knows what that flag represents, everyone. To suggest otherwise is just showing everyone their complete either ignorance or obvious offensive nature. I would never ever associate with such a person.
I can name four reasons why I have no problem being offensive to others:

1.) Playing the "offended card" to prevent dissent

Some people claim to be offended just so they can stop dissenters from disagreeing with their opinions. I am seeing this happen a lot here in college. I remember making a post on Facebook about a month ago, and one of my friends from messaged me and said that they found what I said to be offensive. The thing that infuriated me, however, was that she had the nerve to tell me that I was wrong and to tell me how I should feel about the issue. How is an opinion wrong? Dissent is necessary for progress! As someone who is studying the natural sciences, I recognize the need for dissent as it leads to new discoveries and innovation. For example, what if Charles Darwin would have never dissented against the Church's view of creationism? We would still hold true that Adam and Eve started the human population, which is contrary to scientific evidence (I speak as a Christian).

2.) Playing the "offended card" impedes upon my free speech

Why should I have to censor my speech just because someone else dislikes what I say to the point of being offended? I am just as free to say what I feel just as anyone else is, per the words of the First Amendment of the Constitution. Additionally, I take these words to heart:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death for your right to say it" -Voltaire

3.) We avoid telling the truth because someone might get offended

I can say this with personal experience. All throughout my life, I was overweight; however, my family members avoided telling me this. Instead of working to reduce my weight, I simply took their word for it. Now, it was my fault for allowing their words to dictate how I structured my diet and exercise routine at the ages where I knew better (age 14 and above), but I held onto those words for a long time. We avoid telling the truth because people may become offended. For example, someone may avoid telling someone else that a certain dress makes that person look fat. In reality, that person may be saving the other from social suicide!

4.) Offense is a one way street here in America

DISCLAIMER: By citing these examples, I am not saying that I agree.

How come it is perfectly OK to talk down on Christianity, but bad to talk down on Muslims? How come it is perfectly fine to get offended at people who believe in traditional family values (marriage is between a man in a woman), but it is outrageously offensive to find two men or two women kissing to be offensive? It seems like only certain things can be considered "offensive" in today's society. If someone finds something offensive that the rest of society does not find offensive, then they are labeled as a "bigot".

5.) There are over 7.3 billion people on this planet

Not everyone shares the exact same opinion, and thankfully so! If we all did, then we would be nothing more than soulless robots. I am a huge fan of diversity, and I believe it should be celebrated. This also includes diversity of opinion, which some people do not appreciate.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,362,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbyBobble View Post
Lol a Civil War Part Deux!

People don't seem to learn from history. For one, the entire structure of the US has been ''built up'' by ''The North''. If the South were to rise again, they would destroy their own economy. Even if somehow the south ended up winning...soon after the South would probably end up slitting itself.
Oh, Please! Tension between North and South was pretty much extinguished after World War II, and the spread of industrialization has wiped out most of the differential in pay and living conditions. The Southerners who still fly Confederate flags aren't all that much less-connected than some big-city residents who wonder why their union cards and connections to local political hacks don't carry as much influence as they once did.
The end result of a growing and globalizing economy is a level playing field and, unfortunately for some, a more slippery slope on its fringes.

A substantial number of African-Southerners simply "voted with their feet", and moved to a better life in the north and West. Technology in the form of, for example, the mechanical cotton picker quickly took up the slack, just as it did for the displaced tenant farmers known as the Okies. Human progress isn't always gentle, but it is usually permanent. The carping of a few aging malcontents to the contrary, acceptance of greater diversity is usually part of the process.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:42 PM
 
Location: New York NY
5,524 posts, read 8,789,571 times
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I have not read through this entire thread so maybe this has been mentioned before, but the objection to the Stars and Bars doesn't come from its Civil war associations as much as its Civil Rights Era associations. This flag was used often not to uphold the Confederacy, but as a symbol against racial integration and black equality in the South. See this picture from the 1957 and the protests against school integration in Little Rock Ark.

Are Little Rock schools finally desegregated? | New Pittsburgh Courier

All this is still within living memory for many people -- as the Civil War is not. This Confederate flag was used as a symbol of resistance to a contemporary push for equal rights as much as a historical reference to the Confederacy, which is why it is still offensive to many people today.
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