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Old 01-15-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
16,617 posts, read 10,003,722 times
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Gf and I had this discussion just the other day. I think it should be legalized, and it's ridiculous that it isn't. If the prostitute wants to offer sex for hire and the john agrees to pay for the service, why not legalize it? I never understood why porn is legal but prostitution is not If the only difference is the STD angle, the john and/or prostitute simply needs to insist on condom usage.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:10 AM
 
6,791 posts, read 7,434,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984 View Post
To put this in perspective brothels primarily got shut down in the United States due to the spread of venereal diseases back in the late 19th century to early 20th century. Nowadays this has been a non issue for decades due to safe sex practices in the few legal brothels in the United States. The average sex worker in a brothel in Nevada makes about 150K a year. The brothel industry which can only operate in rural counties in Nevada makes about $50,000,000.00 a year.

So with all of that said yes we should've made prostitution legal a long time ago. It's not like we are inventing the wheel here since we have a working model of it already out in Nevada that works. We can tax it, regulate it, and earn a profit off it while also making prostitution safe for both the sex worker and the customer.

As far as what is holding prostitution back from being legalized it's combination of religious groups and women's rights groups. Since feminist tend to view prostitution as exploitation and slavery. It doesn't matter to them if it's legal prostitution where a woman can make 300k a year and do so in a safe environment of her own free will...feminist still view it as exploitation and slavery of women. That is why you won't have democrats and republicans making it legal. Even though if you talk to your state rep about this issue behind close doors most of them will say "it should be legal".
It is generally only the radical feminists opposed to it on the grounds of exploitation, furthering oppression of women etc.. Many moderate feminists are in favor of legalization. IMO, the religious, moral concerns of the American majority are a much stronger opposition than most modern feminists. I think there would be a huge uproar in the bible belt if a politician seriously brought up the subject.

I consider myself a feminist, and have no issue with it. People can choose to do whatever they wish with their own bodies. I believe it should be legal, and well regulated for the safety of the workers, and clients.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado
14,612 posts, read 9,005,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
One of the more outspoken proponents for legalizing Cannabis in Colorado was a married mother of two teenage boys who, after delivering a highly technical and fact laden report outlining all the revenue that Colorado stood to make if weed were legalized totally lost my support when she said, "personally, I am against it. I don't intend to use it myself and I intend to make sure that my own two sons are made well aware of how harmful the stuff is.... but...and here I put words in her mouth "but I hope other mothers sons will smoke plenty of the stuff and kill their minds and their chances for quality lives because every joint purchased is going to mean tax dollars in the state coffers... ... how awful.

You as much have said that you won't be a customer of a legal brothel, but women you don't know or care about, and men you don't know or care about should feel free to partake, so you can have nice roads and schools, etc. without your being asked for any more tax revenue than you presently pay. If something is bad. It is bad. Period. If you wouldn't do it. You shouldn't want anyone else doing it. And if, your attitude is really "live and let live", fine. I can support that... I think the tax rate on weed in Colorado is 25%??? That's disgusting. The lawmakers wanted as much as 40% but IMO 25% is still ridiculously extortionate and if prostitution were legalized, the only way most legislative boards would let it happen is if they could tax it at rates well in excess of 20%. That is just wrong. Period.

Let people do what they want under prevailing rates of taxation that govern other things people use like alcohol or cigarettes or keep them illegal. Anything less is unfair and unChristian. I don't claim to be a Christian but others do. And they appear to be completely willing to turn a blind eye to Sin if they can tax it at 25% and pick up some free money for nothing.

H
Your quote sounds a lot like me. Were you quoting someone who speaks about this on C-D or a person from TV or news? Just wondering. Because if you were quoting one of the very many posts I've made on the subject (and I consider it quite possible) you are misreading my intent considerably.

I don't use it. That is my choice. Although I'm not against it...I just don't feel it's a fit for the life I know lead. My life. My choice.
I prefer my teenage sons don't use it (though I prefer it to alcohol) and I do talk to them about the harms I believe come with it. They must make their own choice.
I support the right and responsibility for each adult person to make their own choice.

As for whether I want another Mother's sons to fry their brains with pot...well it's always been possible in fact it was easier to get when I was a teen. My thinking is that maybe when it's not as taboo, teen use will drop, problematic habits will be more honestly discussed and helped instead of hiding because of fear of arrest, etc. I am hoping that legalization will be better and not worse.

This has a strong parallel to the sex trade. Because the notion that "if something is bad, it's bad and if you wouldn't do it you shouldn't want anyone to do it, and if that's the case there needs to be a law" is pretty much the opposite of my entire philosophy in life. Plenty of people do things I wouldn't do, that I don't consider "bad" or "wrong" just not for me. None of us need any level of government to tell us what is "good" or "bad." If you can't figure out what to do with yourself without a Nanny State regulating every little thing, then you're not much of an adult in my opinion.

People still do all kinds of things that are illegal. People choose not to do things that are legal. I've never been drunk in my life, I don't like alcohol. Legality doesn't even come into it. And I see nothing wrong with society profiting from the activities that are completely optional that people choose to do, and choose to pay taxes in order to do.

At least if prostitution were legal, there would be protections for the women and the johns as many have said. And no, I would not partake. As for whether I'd want my sons to, well once they are grown up they can make that choice for themselves. Until then, it's my job to offer guidance. What other parents guide their kids to or away from is none of my business.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:27 AM
 
915 posts, read 682,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post

This has a strong parallel to the sex trade. Because the notion that "if something is bad, it's bad and if you wouldn't do it you shouldn't want anyone to do it, and if that's the case there needs to be a law" is pretty much the opposite of my entire philosophy in life. Plenty of people do things I wouldn't do, that I don't consider "bad" or "wrong" just not for me. None of us need any level of government to tell us what is "good" or "bad." If you can't figure out what to do with yourself without a Nanny State regulating every little thing, then you're not much of an adult in my opinion.
I would go further. I do judge people who make bad or strange choices from my perspective, but that doesn't mean I want the government to make it illegal just because I don't like it.

Things should be illegal if the person doing them hurts other people in a somewhat direct/provable way. The proof doesn't have to be mathematical but at least a strong correlation is needed.

Prostitution exists (and I bet priests and politicians partake of it.) It's on par with massage, mani-pedi, haircuts in that a person services your body for money. At many places and throughout many times in history, it has been legal without being any more or less harmful to the society.

So, it should be legal.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
2,388 posts, read 3,191,186 times
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I think it should be legal and regulated with laws in a similar way other vices are regulated, such as tobacco cigarettes, alcohol, and strip clubs.

Set age of consent limits, and have it treated as legitimate businesses, and each pimp or madame as business owners. Of course it's an activity that's at-your-own-risk, but with it no longer criminalized, it opens the doors to madams and pimps being able to require their employees to undergo physical screenings and health education, proper use of contraceptives and self-defense techniques for their own safety. They require that now, but it has to be suppressed and in secret instead of as part of a legitimate business protocol.

Pimps would probably go out of business because young women wouldn't require their protection, and the pimp mainly ends up treating her as his "owned property" and abuses her. There's also the aspect that women abused in these situations will no longer have to fear going to the police because there wouldn't be any crime committed on her part and she wouldn't have to fear jail time.

It's a service industry profession and should be treated as such instead of being illegal simply because of some moral objection to women making a lucrative income from exploiting men.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:07 PM
 
894 posts, read 777,553 times
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I lean more towards personal choices and responsibility. If you want to sell your body for sex? I have no problem with it. It's already being done.

The problem I have is too much govt involvement. That's the only reason the nanny staters generally want it. To tax it and control it.

It should be treated as any other business/subcontractor. But, as we've seen in the small business world, too much govt has choked out a great many small business owners.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,786 posts, read 15,236,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
For many years before the 20th century brothels were licensed and taxed. We are one of the last 1st world nations that it is still illegal. The only debatable reason it is still illegal here is a religious one and that should not be a deciding factor.
I don't think religion is much of a factor. I live in Washington state, reportedly (according to polling) the #1 most unchurched state in the US. Yet there is a long running war on prostitution here.

Tougher police tactics stinging sex buyers | Local News | The Seattle Times
The Blotter | Cops take over massage parlor, arrest six customers | Seattle Times Newspaper
Local News | Prostitution sting leads to 104 arrests | Seattle Times Newspaper

I could post many more links, but you get the idea. This is all being done under liberal Democratic leadership, and generally not from religious motives.

I think it's a combination of motives. One, I suspect that the cops see this as a relatively risk-free way of getting practice at undercover work, which is considered a 'glamour' job in police work. They get their feet wet in hooker busts, and then can move on to drug busts and other undercover work.

Secondly they ruin people's lives, and some cops just get jollies out of that. Once they get busted for prostitution, now they have a tough time getting a normal job and getting out of the life. Finally, sometimes it can be a big payday for gov't. They shut down a couple of strip club here over prostitution, and seized them via asset forfeiture. Total haul IIRC was over $5 million.
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,790 posts, read 10,479,326 times
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Some people are missing my point. I too support legalization. Without qualifications! If the state wants to take 9% because that's what any other transaction is taxed at, then, fine. To single sex work out for additional taxation is wrong. Period. Safety for the sex workers my eye. There really isn't any way to guarantee that. If you really care so much about the women that might go into sex work if it was legal or are doing it now even while its not... how about we tax billionaires and establish a single payer healthcare system that does not require premiums. What a concept. How about housing stipends that are rationally means tested. How about that $15/hr minimum wage... ...
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,760 posts, read 6,836,461 times
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This is some interesting reading, especially the part towards the end;
21st century: reducing the size of the red light district.


Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't have any problem with prostitution being legalized. I know there is little or no chance our current crop of elected representatives would ever agree to it, and if they did, there would be horrible fighting about the details and how to regulate it.

We will always have Johns and hookers. You just won't change that. Even if you allow brothels, you will still have to Johns who stick to the shadows for fear of being caught and shamed in public, be it at work, school, church, etc. And don't even pretend there aren't some good churchin' folk out there who like to step out from time to time.

I have no idea how I would go about legalization if I were in charge. I like the idea of preserving secrecy and anonymity of the workers and Johns, but you can't tax anonymous people. I also don't know how on Earth you would zone for it. You know good and well that no one wants a brothel in their neighborhood, even if they would be a customer. I think the legalization is fine, its just everything else that comes along with it leaves me with more questions than answers. And I don't necessarily trust our government to not screw things up.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,786 posts, read 15,236,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Some people are missing my point. I too support legalization. Without qualifications! If the state wants to take 9% because that's what any other transaction is taxed at, then, fine. To single sex work out for additional taxation is wrong. Period. Safety for the sex workers my eye. There really isn't any way to guarantee that. If you really care so much about the women that might go into sex work if it was legal or are doing it now even while its not... how about we tax billionaires and establish a single payer healthcare system that does not require premiums. What a concept. How about housing stipends that are rationally means tested. How about that $15/hr minimum wage... ...
There is never a 100% guarantee of safety. But no sex worker from any of the legal brothels of NV has ever tested positive for HIV. And HIV has been with us now for approx. 30 years. AFAIK there has never been a case of a murder of a prostitute in the legal brothels. We had one guy alone in WA who killed over 50 street hookers. He was able to do this due to the cover provided by the fact that prostitution is illegal. So those 50 murders were a direct consequence of the prostitution laws.

I am scratching my head to understand the connection to taxing of billionaires, single payer health care, etc.
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