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Old 01-15-2015, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado
14,610 posts, read 8,998,501 times
Reputation: 26792

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I think that Leisesturm is trying to say that regular folks doing regular business don't need more taxes in general. In a sense I agree, although I'm not all about some of the other more socialist notions mentioned...

I guess my issue with it is that I do find it more acceptable to tax beer, cigarettes, brothels, weed...as opposed to diapers or food...necessities of life. I prefer that those who pay additional taxes are doing so voluntarily for things they could easily choose to forego. Luxury tax, as a concept, more than "sin" tax (as I don't believe in sin per se.) Hotels and cruises, boats and recreational vehicles, many things already carry additional tax for this reason in many places.

As for religion not being a motivator for politicians as in WA...I think it's safe to say that when people mention religion it's not about the faith of the elected official. It's about the veneer of respectability. Keeping up appearances for his theoretically religious constituents and keeping his name out of the tabloids, not giving opponents ammunition to slam his reputation with in commercials come election time.

But I agree that in the case of WA it's probably also about asset forfeiture and police power plays than anything else.

Another serious reason I'd like to see the industry legal, controlled, and regulated, is that illegal human trafficking has gone on quietly forever, we had busts here in Colorado Springs not long ago. A thriving black market for sex can only fuel this. Legal prostitution may not eliminate it, but perhaps it would reduce it.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:35 PM
 
6,979 posts, read 4,816,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepman91919 View Post
The middle man is known today as a pimp, and the pimp already gets a cut, but the worker has no protection because there is no legalization, regulation or oversight. The pimp also can treat the worker extremely poorly and get away with it most times.
I would imagine that not every "high class call girl" has a pimp....but if you go into business with the govt, they become your pimp and give you no choice...at least the working girl has a choice to have a pimp or not.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,786 posts, read 15,234,097 times
Reputation: 7960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think that Leisesturm is trying to say that regular folks doing regular business don't need more taxes in general. In a sense I agree, although I'm not all about some of the other more socialist notions mentioned...

I guess my issue with it is that I do find it more acceptable to tax beer, cigarettes, brothels, weed...as opposed to diapers or food...necessities of life. I prefer that those who pay additional taxes are doing so voluntarily for things they could easily choose to forego. Luxury tax, as a concept, more than "sin" tax (as I don't believe in sin per se.) Hotels and cruises, boats and recreational vehicles, many things already carry additional tax for this reason in many places.

As for religion not being a motivator for politicians as in WA...I think it's safe to say that when people mention religion it's not about the faith of the elected official. It's about the veneer of respectability. Keeping up appearances for his theoretically religious constituents and keeping his name out of the tabloids, not giving opponents ammunition to slam his reputation with in commercials come election time.

But I agree that in the case of WA it's probably also about asset forfeiture and police power plays than anything else.

Another serious reason I'd like to see the industry legal, controlled, and regulated, is that illegal human trafficking has gone on quietly forever, we had busts here in Colorado Springs not long ago. A thriving black market for sex can only fuel this. Legal prostitution may not eliminate it, but perhaps it would reduce it.
OK, good post. I don't know what the climate is in CO, but here in WA there is zero chance of getting legalization of prostitution. If the two state that have just legalized pot are not going to do it, there is probably no state that will do it.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:43 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 1,019,866 times
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The US has so many prostitutes--probably more than other western nations. All because of the vast differences in income. The illegality is only based on NIMBY rules.

But the internet overcomes all hurdles with porn and webcams. Discreet transactions and quick hookups. New technology will over 3-D experience, remote controlled devices, realistic silicone doll-robots and other TBD stuff.

The discussion about old fashioned brothels is increasingly becoming moot.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,786 posts, read 15,234,097 times
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Another interesting point to me is that Seattle in the 50's and 60's had a 'tolerance policy' whereby prostitution and other vices were allowed to go on. The political spin of the time was that tolerance was better, because otherwise it would create a void that would allow East Coast mafia to move in on Seattle. There's a great little book about the history that I read recently:
Seattle Vice by Rick Anderson - Book - eBook - Random House

According to the book a downtown hotel (the 'LaSalle') was actually a brothel, and there would be lines around the block to get in when a big ship full of sea men docked in Seattle. Everyone including the police, knew what was up, but it was generally tolerated.

The tolerance policy came to an end by the 1980's or so in part because it generated corruption among cops, and in part I think because by then Seattle politics had changed, and it became a one party town.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,786 posts, read 15,234,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid View Post
I would imagine that not every "high class call girl" has a pimp....but if you go into business with the govt, they become your pimp and give you no choice...at least the working girl has a choice to have a pimp or not.
Agreed, and this is another point. We have legalized pot here, but the taxes are so high that reportedly the black market prices are lower than the legal market prices, so the black market has not gone away. In fact, now that black market pot represents a threat to a tax revenue stream, I expect that the war on drugs will intensify here, not go away.

The need for the violent thug pimp is also a direct consequence of prostitution being illegal. If a girl gets ripped off or otherwise abused by a customer, another prostitute, etc, she can't go to police. So she needs a violent thug type to handle matters. No different from why the illegal drug trade is also populated with thugs.
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Old 01-15-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
4,628 posts, read 4,192,345 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
For many years before the 20th century brothels were licensed and taxed. We are one of the last 1st world nations that it is still illegal. The only debatable reason it is still illegal here is a religious one and that should not be a deciding factor.
You're not much of a pimp, are you.

Cigarettes are "licensed and taxed" but that doesn't stop illegal untaxed cigarettes being sold. In fact, the high taxes on cigarettes encourage illegal sales. Same for marijuana in Colorado. Do you seriously think prostitution would be the exception?

So you'd have licensed, taxed, and inspected brothels and massage parlors but you would still have competition from untaxed street walkers and back-alley massage parlors. Why would a pimp or a massage parlor owner pay prostitution tax voluntarily?
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
7,381 posts, read 5,982,454 times
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Legalization is a red herring. A better argument is for the decriminalization of the act, while keeping illegal trafficking, pimping, streetwalking, public pandering, and creating a nuisance generally. If the act is legal, then there is no longer any legal reason to ban brothels, as long as they are well-regulated, licensed, taxed, zoned, and regularly inspected, participants are willing adults who're not being exploited or coerced (and free to form or join a union), and (if not a cooperative or partnership) have operators/owners without criminal records/associations.
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:48 PM
 
915 posts, read 682,580 times
Reputation: 1066
Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid View Post
I would imagine that not every "high class call girl" has a pimp....but if you go into business with the govt, they become your pimp and give you no choice...at least the working girl has a choice to have a pimp or not.
This makes no sense. The government does not own all shops selling cigarettes, liquor or pot, nor does it run casinos. How are the prostitutes going "into business with the government"? It would be like any other legal business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
You're not much of a pimp, are you.

Cigarettes are "licensed and taxed" but that doesn't stop illegal untaxed cigarettes being sold. In fact, the high taxes on cigarettes encourage illegal sales. Same for marijuana in Colorado. Do you seriously think prostitution would be the exception?

So you'd have licensed, taxed, and inspected brothels and massage parlors but you would still have competition from untaxed street walkers and back-alley massage parlors. Why would a pimp or a massage parlor owner pay prostitution tax voluntarily?
Taxes don't mean high taxes. So illegally sold cigarettes are a red herring. And even then, what is their market share of the overall cigarette market? What is the market share of moonshine of the overall liquor market? Both negligible, I bet.
Why does anyone pay tax? Not because they love the government, not out of a sense of duty, and not because they hate having money. It's fear of going to jail. Why would that be different for someone running a prostitution business?
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:51 PM
 
105 posts, read 160,879 times
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I am not morally opposed to decriminalization but the reality is this.

If we continue with the current system, the working girls get 100% of their money (minus a commission paid to their "broker", "facilitator" or, in increasingly smaller numbers, "pimps").

If we allow the government to take over, prices will rise, which will hurt the working girl's business (most are not $10,000 per night call girls). Instead of the girl getting 100% of the money, minus her brokerage fee, she will have to share a percentage off the top with government (as their cut of the action) and THEN pay income taxes on the remainder. She might even have to send out 1099s to her customers so that the IRS stays happy.

Too much trouble will result from government involvement. The girls seem to be able to handle things on their own.
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