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I think you've missed one important phrase at the beginning of the article.
I bolded the phrase because there is this naive idea that marriages back in the day were perfect and idyllic, never mind those that were ripe with domestic abuse and infidelity simply because both social stigma and economic realities made it difficult to leave and gave little motivation to fix a dysfunctional dynamic in these particular households.
Well, yeah, it goes without saying that if you select a spouse wisely and you both share the goal of raising a loving and successful family, then there will be little drama and low conflict. Mature people handle problems and do not allow themselves to degrade to the diminished and depraved status of becoming beaters or cheaters on their spouses.
Domestic abuse and infidelity are rare exceptions among healthy people and will not apply to the vast majority of marriages where the partners were careful in their selection process. Which, obviously, everyone should be.
Last edited by toosie; 02-21-2017 at 04:57 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted post
This research has been cited as justification for recent public policy initiatives to promote and strengthen marriages. However, findings from the research are often oversimplified, leading to exaggeration by proponents of marriage initiatives and to skepticism from critics. While the increased risks faced by children raised without both parents are certainly reason for concern, the majority of children in single-parent families grow up without serious problems. In addition, there continues to be debate about how much of the disadvantages to children are attributable to poverty versus family structure, as well as about whether it is marriage itself that makes a difference or the type of people who get married.
Of course the probability that a child raised in a stable, loving, functional two parent household will be at an advantage over a child raised in a single parent household, that is a given. Stating that there must be a marriage and the father must work while the mother stays home with the kids is not at all supported in this article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Well, yeah, it goes without saying that if you select a spouse wisely and you both share the goal of raising a loving and successful family, then there will be little drama and low conflict. Mature people handle problems and do not allow themselves to degrade to the diminished and depraved status of becoming beaters or cheaters on their spouses.
Domestic abuse and infidelity are rare exceptions among healthy people and will not apply to the vast majority of marriages where the partners were careful in their selection process. Which, obviously, everyone should be.
You have apparently lived your life in a bubble. Your ideas are more theory than reality. Here are some stats.
domestic violence.
Every 9 seconds in the US a woman is assaulted or beaten.
Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime. Most often, the abuser is a member of her own family.
Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women—more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined.
Studies suggest that up to 10 million children witness some form of domestic violence annually.
Nearly 1 in 5 teenage girls who have been in a relationship said a boyfriend threatened violence or self-harm if presented with a breakup.
Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends.
Ninety-two percent of women surveyed listed reducing domestic violence and sexual assault as their top concern.
Domestic violence victims lose nearly 8 million days of paid work per year in the US alone—the equivalent of 32,000 full-time jobs.
Based on reports from 10 countries, between 55 percent and 95 percent of women who had been physically abused by their partners had never contacted non-governmental organizations, shelters, or the police for help.
The costs of intimate partner violence in the US alone exceed $5.8 billion per year: $4.1 billion are for direct medical and health care services, while productivity losses account for nearly $1.8 billion.
Men who as children witnessed their parents’ domestic violence were twice as likely to abuse their own wives than sons of nonviolent parents.
As far as infidelity stats will range from 25-70% of married people who have cheated.
Well, yeah, it goes without saying that if you select a spouse wisely and you both share the goal of raising a loving and successful family, then there will be little drama and low conflict. Mature people handle problems and do not allow themselves to degrade to the diminished and depraved status of becoming beaters or cheaters on their spouses.
I am always skeptical of prescriptions requiring that large doses of hindsight be brought to bear aforehand. In the real world, life brings challenges to all, and all that any couple can or should do is what they think they can make work best for themselves and their family.
Studies have shown that raising a child without a father is usually detrimental to the child in the long run.
I am a "Millennial" man who is engaged and we decided to...
That "deciding to" part of the equation is sadly the exception in these matters.
But to be very frank it always has been the exception.
In times past though, when MOST of the world was agrarian, the young parents in question
had accumulated useful and needed skills that would allow them to provide for the new children
AND most had a lot of immediate family in close proximity with similar skills and capacities.
But that model really isn't the case any more. Is it?
---
As to remedies or pronouncing ideals...
the first step is eliminating the problematic "wedlock" threshold itself;
the second step is being honest about their capacity to provide by their own effort.
Enforcing a marriage expectation on them isn't going to help much because the two have
rarely been in a monogamous relationship prior to CONCEPTION.
Which neatly brings us back to the real issue: Not Managing Conception better.
Regardless of what the parents or society as a whole might be willing to do for the children
once they have arrived that is still only dealing with the SYMPTOM of the problem.
"Making it work" is a euphemism for "I didn't plan this and it pretty much sucks, but everyone seems to be doing OK and nobody is dying and I know what is best for me, because it's me, and I don't have to use reason or focus or discipline or have high character or morals, because no one else does, and my mom takes good care of my kids while I am working, and I don't need others to lock me in to their stupid moralities which don't apply to me, because as I said, it's me, and I know what's best for me, because everything is relative and shades of gray and there are no absolutes and no one best way to do things, and yes, I might feel like crying pretty often and I DO MISS MY BABY while on the train or sitting in this dental office to make ends meet, but hey, plans and discipline are not everything, sometimes you just have to go with it."
"Making it work" is not a plan. It's what happens when you didn't plan.
Yeh. Here's my question. If you're not "ready to be married", WHY are you "ready to be a parent". There's something here that is about rationalization. Other than simple failure to use contraception during an urgent episode of sex, what EXCUSE can be produced for conception by a couple who are not even seeing marriage in their relationship. Again, the world does NOT need children that desperately. One of you might, but a mature person should introspect about "why this need"? The notion of childlessness as an incomplete life is just propaganda. Brainwashing.
Not really. From the article.
You have apparently lived your life in a bubble. Your ideas are more theory than reality. Here are some stats.
domestic violence.
Every 9 seconds in the US a woman is assaulted or beaten.
Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime. Most often, the abuser is a member of her own family.
Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women—more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined.
Studies suggest that up to 10 million children witness some form of domestic violence annually.
Nearly 1 in 5 teenage girls who have been in a relationship said a boyfriend threatened violence or self-harm if presented with a breakup.
Everyday in the US, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends.
Ninety-two percent of women surveyed listed reducing domestic violence and sexual assault as their top concern.
Domestic violence victims lose nearly 8 million days of paid work per year in the US alone—the equivalent of 32,000 full-time jobs.
Based on reports from 10 countries, between 55 percent and 95 percent of women who had been physically abused by their partners had never contacted non-governmental organizations, shelters, or the police for help.
The costs of intimate partner violence in the US alone exceed $5.8 billion per year: $4.1 billion are for direct medical and health care services, while productivity losses account for nearly $1.8 billion.
Men who as children witnessed their parents’ domestic violence were twice as likely to abuse their own wives than sons of nonviolent parents.
As far as infidelity stats will range from 25-70% of married people who have cheated.
This all could be eradicated very simply and quickly if people were more careful about who they have relationships with. People who are prone to irrational violence project that capacity and predilection very early in a relationship and it is easy to spot if you are looking for it. The red flags come up very quickly and very accurately. So, for example, you start dating someone and you see that they like to drink a bit too much. Red flag up! Get rid of that person and move on to someone else. Why? People who like to drink a lot typically have a whole host of problems, and often lack self-control. Lack of self-control is a primary characteristic of an abuser. So if you see that behavior but still like the person for other reasons, you are on the verge of making a mistake and inviting a problem and making a choice to accept a problem. So use self-discipline and dump the person right away and look for a better person. I don't believe for a minute that abusers can hide their personality defects until after marriage. The tendencies, ancillary behaviors, and red flags are there if you look for them. And one of the main purposes of dating someone is to LOOK FOR RED FLAGS. THEY ARE THERE. But you have to be actively looking for them, and most importantly, willing to act quickly and decisively if they appear. You start to date this really hot person and they are going down to Atlantic City this weekend. OK. Now it's a month later and you propose dinner for Saturday. But they can't go, they are going to Parx. RED FLAG! They like to gamble. Now if you are going to continue dating, you have to be hypervigilant with regard to a possible huge character defect - someone who may have a gambling problem. A self-control issue. And we know that inability to control oneself can lead to abuse. Solution? Dump them or at least heighten observation of their ability to control their impulses. Any further adverse evidence should quickly lead to a rational decision to detach and move on.
Bottom line? If someone married an abuser, the failure was partially or completely their own for not spotting the signals. They were there. If you didn't see them, it was because you consciously chose to ignore them.
Dating should be considered, to quote the Donald, a form of extreme vetting. Your life and happiness depend on your decision to rationally evaluate your potential mate prior to getting into bed with them. If you don't, what happens next is on you. If you don't? You invite an illegitimate child and condemn him or her to having a parent who is a loser, or worse, an abuser.
Again, what seems to be bad luck or an unfortunate happenstance turns out to be a direct choice. And today with the typical millennial engaging in frequent hookups, trying multiple people on sexually like pairs of Nikes, is it any wonder that illegitimate children and existential misery and abuse are more common? Not to mention a generation that thinks it is cool to abandon their children, raise them fatherless, cart them off to day care centers and "pre-schools?" Illegitimacy and abuse are often choices, not bad luck.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 02-22-2017 at 12:39 PM..
This all could be eradicated very simply and quickly if people were more careful about who they have relationships with. People who are prone to irrational violence project that capacity and predilection very early in a relationship and it is easy to spot if you are looking for it. The red flags come up very quickly and very accurately. So, for example, you start dating someone and you see that they like to drink a bit too much. Red flag up! Get rid of that person and move on to someone else. Why? People who like to drink a lot typically have a whole host of problems, and often lack self-control. Lack of self-control is a primary characteristic of an abuser. So if you see that behavior but still like the person for other reasons, you are on the verge of making a mistake and inviting a problem and making a choice to accept a problem. So use self-discipline and dump the person right away and look for a better person. I don't believe for a minute that abusers can hide their personality defects until after marriage. The tendencies, ancillary behaviors, and red flags are there if you look for them. And one of the main purposes of dating someone is to LOOK FOR RED FLAGS. THEY ARE THERE. But you have to be actively looking for them, and most importantly, willing to act quickly and decisively if they appear. You start to date this really hot person and they are going down to Atlantic City this weekend. OK. Now it's a month later and you propose dinner for Saturday. But they can't go, they are going to Parx. RED FLAG! They like to gamble. Now if you are going to continue dating, you have to be hypervigilant with regard to a possible huge character defect - someone who may have a gambling problem. A self-control issue. And we know that inability to control oneself can lead to abuse. Solution? Dump them or at least heighten observation of their ability to control their impulses. Any further adverse evidence should quickly lead to a rational decision to detach and move on.
Bottom line? If someone married an abuser, the failure was partially or completely their own for not spotting the signals. They were there. If you didn't see them, it was because you consciously chose to ignore them.
Dating should be considered, to quote the Donald, a form of extreme vetting. Your life and happiness depend on your decision to rationally evaluate your potential mate prior to getting into bed with them. If you don't, what happens next is on you. If you don't? You invite an illegitimate child and condemn him or her to having a parent who is a loser, or worse, an abuser.
Again, what seems to be bad luck or an unfortunate happenstance turns out to be a direct choice. And today with the typical millennial engaging in frequent hookups, trying multiple people on sexually like pairs of Nikes, is it any wonder that illegitimate children and existential misery and abuse are more common? Not to mention a generation that thinks it is cool to abandon their children, raise them fatherless, cart them off to day care centers and "pre-schools?" Illegitimacy and abuse are often choices, not bad luck.
So roughly 30% of the entire population don't pick the correct partner and that is why there has always been rampant abuse and infidelity, social acceptance of multiple wives, concubines, mistresses, affairs and violence against women. I see.
So roughly 30% of the entire population don't pick the correct partner and that is why there has always been rampant abuse and infidelity, social acceptance of multiple wives, concubines, mistresses, affairs and violence against women. I see.
No, much more. We have a 50% divorce rate also. So in this hook-up, shack-up world that we live in, MOST people choose not to exercise much discretion or discrimination in picking partners. That needs to change.
I think there's a presumption of rationality that is wrong. There are all kinds of subconscious issues going on when we interact with potential partners. Our experience of our mother. Our experience of our father. Our experience in early puberty. Frankly, I think people should know all of this before even attempting a mate search. Kind of like scouting the rotten ice before putting our weight on a frozen lake. We don't really have the healthiest civilization. For just one thing, we all suffer from the hypocrisy of our religions. I remember being in a religious youth group. Instead of enlightening us about socialization, it was about nothing but religious indoctrination. This was for people who'd already been confirmed, but still they were raking over the same doctrines. Wouldn't be at all shocked if the kids in the group had many marital problems and divorces. The church totally fell down on the job. So where else might warnings have been issued? In school? Well, you know, parents do not LIKE schools to inject themselves in teaching values to their kids. But the parents do such a lackluster job, the kids are left without any worthwhile compass.
Anyway, so drop the analysis that stands or falls on rationality. No more of that here than in the stock markets, another place where "experts" claimed objectivity would save things.
I think there's a presumption of rationality that is wrong. There are all kinds of subconscious issues going on when we interact with potential partners. Our experience of our mother. Our experience of our father. Our experience in early puberty. Frankly, I think people should know all of this before even attempting a mate search. Kind of like scouting the rotten ice before putting our weight on a frozen lake. We don't really have the healthiest civilization. For just one thing, we all suffer from the hypocrisy of our religions. I remember being in a religious youth group. Instead of enlightening us about socialization, it was about nothing but religious indoctrination. This was for people who'd already been confirmed, but still they were raking over the same doctrines. Wouldn't be at all shocked if the kids in the group had many marital problems and divorces. The church totally fell down on the job. So where else might warnings have been issued? In school? Well, you know, parents do not LIKE schools to inject themselves in teaching values to their kids. But the parents do such a lackluster job, the kids are left without any worthwhile compass.
Anyway, so drop the analysis that stands or falls on rationality. No more of that here than in the stock markets, another place where "experts" claimed objectivity would save things.
Absolutely not. Because we do not observe a preponderance of rationality in selecting mates and making correct life decisions, does not imply that we should accept irrationality in making these decisions. The failure to emphasize Reason as the cardinal factor of successful human life is a philosophical defect in our thinking that needs correction. Because we see stupidity is not a reason to accept stupidity.
Therefore, if we see single parenthood, a 50% divorce rate, and irrational behavior such as hook ups and shack ups, the correct procedure is point out the deficiencies inherent in the behaviors that cause these fails and suggest a rational alternative to prevent them.
Everyone is capable of being rational, but many have not been taught that it is not only within their capability, but vital to their successful survival. I don't accept throwing up our hands and adopting relativism that permits continued failing behavior that leads to single parents, divorces, and abandoned kids. Reason solves all of this quickly and efficiently, and almost everyone is capable of using it to live a better life.
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