Let's not place our soldiers on a pedestal (Congress, generation, parade)
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I take issue with differentiating non-combat vets. Supporting roles often save the lives of combat vets. One team, one fight.
I ALWAYS ask if they give military discounts!! Nowadays I often hear "no but I can give you a senior discount" I'm okay with that!! Never hurts to ask!
We live in a country where people are offended when they are expected to pledge allegiance. A country where it's okay to protest and scream "Death to the US". Where our top leaders are making drug deals with other countries to line their own pockets. This thread doesn't surprise me.
Rude behavior in public should be dealt with by military leadership. No excuse.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-25-2015 at 07:24 AM..
Reason: Removed icon
What is the deal with all of these 20-something and 30-something veterans who think everyone has to kiss Moderator cut: language I was against the Iraq War. Protested against it. Sent well-researched letters to the editor of my local newspaper against it (which I practically caught hell for, at the time). So, I don't want to hear how I "benefited" somehow from their service in Iraq and I "owe" my freedom to them. I'm not that stupid, gullible and jingoistic, thank you very much!
I get major attitude from current/former military spouses and veterans where I work...
Okay...last time I checked, there was no draft! Nobody forced you to join, but you probably did because you were told of all of the goodies you'd get (Montgomery GI bill, health care, federal & state job preference, housing vouchers, low-interest loans, etc.) and, good for you! You deserve those things!
But lose the Moderator cut: language entitlement attitude please! One of my grandfathers is a Korean War vet who was exposed to asbestos in the Navy and now has COPD, and the other one was a WWII vet (now deceased) and both men never complained, never acted childish, never threw hissy fits or tantrums, never acted spoiled or entitled, never had obnoxious/pushy wives...and they weren't ever given very much by our government either. In fact, both of my grandpas are/were normal citizens with normal lives who owned businesses and paid taxes and never really took a dime from the government.
These days, you hear the 20-something and 30-something vets acting like spoiled, entitled brats and asking for more than they are already receiving.
One veteran I worked with in the past gets full VA benefits from being "injured" during wartime service circa 2004. Guess where he was "injured"? The gym on his stateside military base, while trying to impress the other guys by attempting to lift weights!
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-25-2015 at 07:35 AM..
Reason: If you are concerned will happen then don't post, don't write you think it will happen
Why is it acceptable and okay to hate the police and bash them but not our precious "men and women in uniform"? I feel like we have a fetish for the Armed Forces, our devotion to them isn't really rational. They are just people with a job, doesn't mean they're angels.
No one is saying their angels.. these men are in postions where orders are just that.. they cant refuse to kill or be killed.. but for gods sake their protecting your country... maybe if you had been in a warzone and being attacked by others you might come to respect and love the men who are protecting you...All your recent wars havent been on your soil... it makes it a little different you know..
I agree we do too much military worship here in the US. Then again that's what America is proving to be about, wars and military--which I find appalling. The reasons I wouldn't offer discounts or not report the guy to police is that they're not defending America. They're being used to defend places like crimea and the middle east. While I guess it's admirable that the guy likes to fight and is now a full fledged lunatic, he has never defended me or my store. At that point, he's merely a terrorist, terrorizing the store.
I will agree that the military personnel are not perfect and should not be worshipped. America is only about wars? Not hardly. We've not had all these wars without cause or merit until George Bush roared into Iraq without cause. Our previous wars were mostly in response to someone else's actions. WWI we didn't start, WWII we didn't start, Korea we didn't start, Vietnam we didn't start, and even Gulf War '91 we didn't start. Gulf War '03 we DID start. Of course there are biased leftists who have all kinds of conspiracy theories about why America is really to blame for it all, but that is another debate... But remember this, the PEOPLE of this country believed their story about Saddam. The public supported that war by 71%. Only after the people realized they had been hoodwinked did support collapse. The answer is that the people need to stop following behind the hoodwinkers. It is NOT America's purpose to impose democracy globally and it is not our purpose to overthrow dictators. Not unless they are directly threatening us or our people. I am a right-leaning conservative, and I will fully agree with anyone that George W. Bush was the worst president ever.
I find the generational thing to be quite interesting. The whole issue of how we view our military has gone full circle.
Harken back to the dark ages when I served--Viet Nam.
We were considered by the general (well, vocal at least) public to be the lowest form of life possible. Folks spit on us, cursed us, and made derogatory comments at every opportunity. When we left the base we were told "don't wear the uniform--it only invites ridicule", and worse. Truly, it made you feel like you were some sort of low life, second class piranha.
It makes me feel uncomfortable. I know they don't mean any harm, but just as I learned not to dwell on those that would despise me and what I stood for, I am just a little leery of those who would applaud me.
I am comfortable with the middle ground. I did what I felt was right. I served my country, as I think EVERYONE should in one way or another. I don't expect to be applauded for it, nor do I appreciate when I am made out to be an evil scourge. Just know that I did my job, to the best of my ability, for reasons that certainly, at times, I didn't understand nor necessarily agree with. It was part of building my life; building my country; making the way better, perhaps, for those who have come behind me.
Just let it go at that. Thank YOU for appreciating me. Let's just keep it our little secret. That would make me feel just right about my "service".
Whether or not one's life is at risk is a terrible measure of the relative worth of a job. Many professions involve an elevated risk of injury or death- professional driver, circus performer, football player- and these are not held up as examples of noble self-sacrificing service.
It's important to consider what job is actually performed and what service is provided when deciding to honor a particular profession. Unfortunately, in the case of the military the job is most often to support or facilitate the destruction of countries and murder of people who have nothing to do with the security of the United States, and to get paid for it with money taken from productive citizens. That's not an occupation worthy of honor in my book.
I feel great sadness for those who were forced into the military through the draft, and for those young people who entered voluntarily because they either felt they had no other choice or were hoodwinked into believing they were doing something noble and not just furthering the ambition of some politician or other, but I do not honor or respect actions which clearly violate any civilized understanding of morality.
Nearly 100% leftist bias. There are so many inherent biases in these comments it's difficult to debate it. Without our military, there would be NO USA and none of those other jobs would exist. If you think the world is all about peace and coexistence you are mistaken. History does not bear that out. Hitler was developing a nuclear weapon. I assure you he would have used it. He was also developing a long range bomber and was planning to bomb and invade the USA eventually. The Soviet Union and it's agents and vassal states around the world plotted to influence, overthrow, and attack EVERY democracy and capitalist country in order to install communism around the world. Their stated goal was not coexistence but the destruction of the US and communist world domination. Without our very powerful military, we would not be here. Most of our wars were fought against the Hitler/Soviet/Communist aggressors.
Now, having said that, I DO AGREE that recently our country has gone off on a ridiculous tangent project to try to impose our ways on the world. However, this is the rule of liberalism's influence. Liberals have finally convinced the world that everyone is the same and wants the same. Not so. There will always be bad people, there will always be unfree countries, there will always be crimes against humanity. Our best recourse is to expose it, condemn it, isolate it, and try to bring those responsible for it before the entire world. The Iraq invasion was a HUGE MISTAKE. I didn't support it from DAY ONE. But to suggest that we are "destroying" countries and "murdering" people that have nothing to do with our security is a hugely biased and ideological statement. We did not "destroy" Iraq. Most of it's cities still stand. Most of Baghdad's historic buildings remain. Most of it's roads, oil refineries, gas lines, and infrastructure has been repaired and rebuilt. WHICH WE SHOULD HAVE DONE since we damaged it. Did innocent people die? Yes, and that was also shameful and makes me angry. But the people of this country ALLOWED it to happen. Yes, most of the public supported it at the time. It's ALL of our fault, not just Bush's. I am not a "my country right or wrong" kind of patriot. I want my country to cease a lot of what has been happening. I want my country defended. I don't care about overthrowing dictators and governments. That's not what we should do. The USA is not a perfect country. Neither is any other. No one on earth has ever been perfect. I know all about them. I see improvement. When McCain and the warhawks wanted to take us to Syria did the country fall in line? NO. I don't think we should have helped overthrow Ghadafi either. I don't think we should attack Iran either unless they directly try to attack someone. Trying to suggest that the US is operating under some immoral scheme to murder as many people as it can is pure doggerel. The truth is, history is WAY more complicated than that. Modern history too. Our mistakes are many, and hopefully someone will pull the plug on any more foreign adventures in democracy by force. We should aid it where we can and for those that want it. No more no less.
Believing that our soldiers are "defending our country" is a major mistake. Our soldiers are not defending our country in the Middle East any more then they were in Vietnam. At most they are defending the right to loot other countries for the private profit of a few investors and not always are those investors citizens of this country. We are just being thugs for the men that want to own everything.
A soldier is there to take orders... they arent the government at the top.. who dish it out.. they cant question orders... I dont want to go into the politics of your country..but military should have respect for putting their lives at risk. Where would you all turn if your country was attacked..what then...and how would you feel about the military..
My father (almost 90, still living) is a World War II veteran who served in the Pacific. I don't put him on a pedestal, but I will always be thankful and respect him for what he did. The respect I have for him is something I carry in my heart and mind, without giving voice to it all the time.
For a long time, the military has had a chain of retail stores that sell to military personnel at a discount, because they earn less than what they would in a comparable civilian occupation. An individual store might be called a Base Exchange (BX)/Post Exchange (PX). I support this, as well as the health benefits that personnel receive, whether on active duty or in retirement.
As far as respect goes, there should be a happy medium between the outrageous disrespect of the 60's/70's and slavishly bowing down before someone.
Of course we do but some people choose a harder road the others. I see more sense of entitlement coming from people with a college degree then I do the Vets I hire.
I don't think people are criticizing the veterans. It's their families and the people who worship them. Almost every veteran I know refuses to play the veteran card. A few will ask for a discount and get all bent out of shape if they don't get one.
The issue stands more with why we worship the military. It's a volunteer army. Many join to avoid going to prison, others go to get out of their podunk towns. Few go in for any sense of patriotism. Some are thugs with a bully mentality. Most are upstanding members of the community.
The point of this is that while we appreciate what some do, merely being in the military does not make one a hero. And in a civilian democracy we recognize the sacrifice some make and how difficult military life is, but that doesn't mean they are being criticism or reproach.
And to many of people, including myself, the worship seems hollow. Look at the issues veterans face when they go home. Suicides, poor access to health care, mental problems. A few small groups do their best to help but most people offer a handshake, applause and blind praise and think that's good enough. It just feels wrong to me. Also, to those of us who know our history, blind praise of military people and a creation of a separate class of citizens brings up uncomfortable reminders of things that have happened in the past. And it makes it harder to see and discuss the bad things that happen. Which creates a blind nationalism that can do very bad things.
What's wrong with how we treated soldiers before Vietnam? Give them a parade, have their veterans groups take part in the community, honor them on the holidays, but the rest of the year they are normal civilians, some of whom did great things.
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