Alcoholics Anonymous and Rehab doesn't work for most people (heroin, drug, Afghanistan)
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This is where AA loses sight though. AA touts itself as the only avenue out of jails, institutions and deaths for alcoholics. For many people, being told that they are powerless everyday leads them to drink more and more. Also, AA causes many people to drink more because after every slip up of a drink, an honest alcoholic is supposed to pick up a one day chip and is called a "new guy" by everyone in the rooms even if he had 20 years sober and had one beer on the 4th of July and never got drunk and never told anybody for months. Picking up a one day chip over and over makes many people just say f*ck it.
This is why I'm so glad there are other avenues to staying sober. People have free choice to choose what works for them.
Also, can you point out to me exactly where AA touts itself as the only way out of jails and institutions? I can't seem to find this anywhere in the Big Book of AA....Thanks
The powerless part is only the first step. Stop there and you miss the solution!
Also, who is AA for? That is very clearly spelled out in the Big Book. AA is for those who have a "sincere desire to quit drinking." Period. Nothing about other drugs, nothing about people who don't want to quit. In fact it's suggested for those who would like to keep drinking that a member suggest he try an experiment in controlled drinking.
Having read your criticisms I'm not sure you have completely read the material you are critiquing. And I would like to know where you get your statistic of failure rate. I can quote some more optimistic ones. We all know how statistics can be used. I don't like to think someone reading this would give up because success in AA is hopeless. Because that's not true.
The disease of alcoholism was declared an illness by the American Medical Association in 1956, IIRC, and is easily diagnosed by trained personnel. In fact, self-diagnosis of the disease, because of the built in-denial factor, is inadvisable.
Today's AA members tend to have much higher bottoms than the old style AAs of yesteryear because of increased recognition of symptoms and hope for wellness.
The illness is so persistent and formidable that success on first attempt is illusive. But consistent practice of a number of different methods of quitting can eventually lead to longer periods of sobriety. And any day sober is one less day of ingesting a beverage that is killing you. Every sober day is a success for an alcoholic.
AA saved my ex's life, and it's done more than just kept him sober for 16 years...it's given him a community of people/friends that are there for each other like few other groups I've ever seen.
I quit smoking using Chantix. It didn't work for my niece....my brother quit using a patch, that didn't work for me....different individuals, different solution. Since when is a solution worthless unless it works for 100% of people??
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I have a friend who started AA about 10 months ago. I think it has saved his life. I don't care if it works for everyone, if it helps people like him, I am grateful.
AA can work for the right person. Personally I was a drug addict, oxycodone to be exact. AA and NA never helped me. Constantly talking about abuse and addiction does not help me. I am about 5 years clean now and have not been to a single meeting. Before I got truly clean I used to go with good intentions but It just wasn't for me. I believe all addicts are different. What works for one person may very well not work for another. Personally I do not want to be around addicts and acoholics, those type of people is what I needed to distance myself from.
I will likely never go to a meeting again. If it works for you I am truly happy. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is that you are clean and happy.
People drink because they enjoy a drink or two on occasion or because they are alcoholics. If you start something and can't stop you should get help. AA is a good option, better than drinking yourself to death or driving drunk.
This is why I'm so glad there are other avenues to staying sober. People have free choice to choose what works for them.
Also, can you point out to me exactly where AA touts itself as the only way out of jails and institutions? I can't seem to find this anywhere in the Big Book of AA....Thanks
I was in and out of AA for 13 years. For me when I realized that AA as the centerpiece of my existence just wasn't going to work for me, I was able to maintain sobriety and have been sober for 10 plus years. This despite living under the same roof with someone who drinks seven days a week and is drinking as I type this.
My point is when I finally decided that I needed to stay sober but AA just wasn't my avenue I felt like a huge weight had been lifted off of me. I still hit a meeting occasionally but it's more of a peripheral entity in my life.
Some people seem to be attracted to AA and what it offers and for them I think it's probably a good program. But it just made me uncomfortable. I would however consider one of the non spiritual recovery groups if they were available in my area.
There certainly is no "magic bullet" to cure addiction. What works for some might not work for others. FOR ME, AA has helped me tremendously in formulating a better and more productive design for living that works FOR ME. I've been sober for more than 10 years (including nights, weekends and holidays) and someone who attends AA meetings and works that program of recovery.
AA holds no monopoly on getting/staying sober. There are hospitals, psychiatrists, religion, treatment facilities, group therapy, etc....I believe that someone who is battling addiction should have open access to ALL avenues of treatment, and pick the one that best works for them.
I see these kinds of topics now and again, debunking methods of recovery. Pro tip: there isn't ONE single entity on this planet (man made) that is 100% perfect. My suggestion is to keep an open mind, and take advantage of all that is offered. Being in the grips of addiction is no joke, and i'm glad there are numerous ways of getting and staying clean and sober, and hope that all who seek help get the support they need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega
AA worked for me, yes I had hit bottum and wanted desperatly to stay sober. I'm sober 31 years now and would have been dead years ago if it wasen't for AA. I have a great productive life thanks to AA.
just curiosity on my part.. You two, and anyone else who I didn't quote..
Do you feel that the "12 steps" or the group support was more beneficial.. Or they are equally important?
It seems to me.. As someone who barely drinks (Lemme tell you.. Migraines cure or prevent drinking problems better than any program, in my book).. The '12 steps' are fairly bogus.. I'd think that the group support structure would be the most beneficial part.. If you were tempted to drink.. There's someone you can call and talk to, or go hang out with.. But.. The urge to stay sober has to be stronger than the urge to drink. If that doesn't happen.. No group support is going to help.
I think the 12 Steps are the biggest benefit of AA. Not just reading them but having a sponsor explain them and walk you through them, that was the most helpful part for me.
Group "support" can be iffy and has both pluses and minuses. If you are extroverted and enjoy venting your issues to a big roomful of strangers, then AA is a good place to do that. If you are introverted, then you are not likely to enjoy the group environment. Fifty people in a meeting will have 50 different opinions about how you should handle a non-drinking issue. and most of them are not qualified to give advice about your life issues, so you have to be careful how much of that you listen to. I found that many people like to give you advice about stuff they know nothing about and that was very annoying. For instance, everyone seemed to not be working, either retired or on SSDI or somehow earning money without working (not sure how). These people would try to give me advice about my job issues when they had no life experience about working the kind of job that I work. It was annoying. They also seemed to have unending supplies of free time and would sit around debating silly stuff like whether or not to install chair rails in the meeting room. I was sweating it out just to make a meeting in order to stay sober but these people would be going to meetings to find dating partners. Annoying.
Also AA isn't good for atheists or people who are actively participating in specific religions. It is better for "spiritual but not religious" people. If you already have a specific religion that works for you then you might be offended by some of the anti-religion stuff that is spouted out. If you are atheist you may not like the God talk.
As with anything else there is good and bad in AA. Good people, bad people. The 12 Steps work though.
Like most Americans, I had a pretty benign view of AA. About all I really knew about it was from mentions in popular culture and anecdotes about how it worked for people. Having a sponsor who you could call any hour of the day if you were feeling the urge to drink sounds like it could be helpful. Hey, whatever works...
Except it doesn't.
Aside from being ineffective, the 12 steps are delusional and/or dangerous.
Take them one by one, and read between the lines
"1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable."
Purge yourself of the notion that you can control yourself and manage your life yourself
"2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
You're insane, and it takes a higher power to make you sane
"3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."
Abandon control of your own life to God - as you understand Him. However you understand Him, even if you're an atheist.
"4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
Relive and regret everything you have ever done wrong in your life
"5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."
Debase and humiliate yourself with a recounting of all your shortcomings to a virtual stranger
"6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character."
You are defective, diseased, and willing to let God (or something, or nothing, if you are an atheist) fix you
"7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings."
Ask God (or something or nothing) to fix it all, insanity, defectiveness... Humbly...
"8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all."
More self-recriminations and regrets, only written down
"9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
Remind everyone you've ever wronged what a dirtbag you were, and try to make up for it in some way. Most reasonable people will not want to hear from you.
"10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it."
Nothing wrong with seeing when you screw up and apologize, but AA asks that you keep on flagellating and debasing yourself over every slightest wrong you ever do. Never let up on yourself. Always look for your part in a problem, how is it your fault?
"11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."
You will talk to God! (Or the Spaghetti Monster)
"12 Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs."
You believe God Himself spoke directly to you! It's time to tell alcoholics about how glorious it was, and how if they will admit they are powerless, can't manage their lives, are defective and insane and diseased, confess their sins, try to find everyone they've wronged and "make amends", pray and meditate, and ask God to fix them, and God will fix them and talk to them and they can join us to convert more alcoholics to our club.
Mmmmkay....
Is it beginning to sound a little ridiculous to you now?
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