Alcoholics Anonymous and Rehab doesn't work for most people (gallon, health care, death)
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I found AA to cause me great psychological pain and to drink way more. After all, I "couldn't control" myself and meetings were the most depressing hours of my life. I drank to escape depression and the feeling of being powerless...I did AA and just got more depressed and powerless.
I don't believe most of the dogma at AA, that it is a "disease", that you have to hit some bottom (in fact, I think you have to hit a high where you feel stronger not weaker). And then all the sayings. Ugh! Holding hands? Praying? Cult like adherence to outdated beliefs in the big book? No thanks.
S.M.A.R.T. recovery is another free option based on psychology. But again, it is far from perfect.
What bothers me most is that most programs that are there to help addicts use 12 steps at least partly. Having no interest in doing the steps, it really cuts down on options for people like me.
If it has helped you or a loved one...awesome. What ever worked. But the ones who are successful are in the vast minority. I wish thinking would change quicker away from it being the only option and more would come out to help more people.
I am not an alcoholic (don't drink at all, never have), but I have family members who are alcoholics and addicts. AA worked great for my uncle, and probably saved his life. He's been dry for 40-50 years (in his eighties), but has done nothing for two of my nephews (1 alcoholic, 1 meth addict).
I was doing research on allergies for my kids, and came across some studies about treating alcoholism with vitamins, amino acids, and other nutrients based on the subject's chemical imbalance. The typical claim from these studies was AA had a success rate of ~30%, while treating for chemical imbalances with vitamin/amino acid/mineral therapy, combined with counseling (not 12 step), had a success rate of ~70%.
Obviously, I did not do the studies, and can't substantiate their veracity, but it does stand to reason that correcting chemical imbalances would work as a treatment option - oh, and I do understand that heavy drinking over a period of time would clearly have an impact on the bodies processes and chemical balances, so I am not thinking about the "how did it happen" aspect, but the "how to correct the issue" aspect.
I think what works for the individual is the right treatment option, but intuitively it makes sense to me that treating chemical imbalances in addition to counseling would have a higher success rate and lower recidivism rate than either one alone (counseling or chemistry) - and while this is not completely accurate, I would categorize AA as something close to a therapy group, i.e. counseling and support, even though it is run by volunteers and falls outside the purview of professional counseling/therapy.
This, I found, was a major problem. A lot of the sponsors and long timers were *VERY* dysfunctional people. I heard so much dangerous advice. And at least where I went, there was a strong distrust of people in the mental health field outside of rehab workers.
This is where AA loses sight though. AA touts itself as the only avenue out of jails, institutions and deaths for alcoholics. For many people, being told that they are powerless everyday leads them to drink more and more. Also, AA causes many people to drink more because after every slip up of a drink, an honest alcoholic is supposed to pick up a one day chip and is called a "new guy" by everyone in the rooms even if he had 20 years sober and had one beer on the 4th of July and never got drunk and never told anybody for months. Picking up a one day chip over and over makes many people just say f*ck it.
This is my problem with their approach. In another thread the story of a man who had been sober for 50 YEARS came up and the context was that the guy was a failure because he slipped up once after that 50 year stretch. All the "progress" wiped away with one sip. Yes there are some people who are so far gone that they can't really afford to do any drinking at all for their health's sake but there are many more people who probably just need to cut back a little. Where do those people go to for help?
My other problem is how they define an alcoholic. Basically anyone who has ever wondered if they are one or had someone else question if they were one, is one, without exception. You can either admit to it, or deny it, but keep in mind denial is a sure fire indicator of alcoholism. So you're kinda stuck, and by the philosophy of AA must never take another sip again or be a failure.
I've heard that AA's success rate is lower than the success rate of self treatment. I've only heard it in passing and offer it only anecdotally but I don't find it implausible.
So, explain to me why this is "habit" for one person and a "disease" for someone else? Doesn't it come down to will power? If you are an alcoholic and you get arrested for a crime and go to jail, aren't you essentially "forced" to quit cold turkey? Unless they let you drink in prison, i dont know if they do or not.
Doesn't it really just come down to will power and desire? How is quitting drinking different from a fat person who is addicted to sweets to quit visiting Dunkin Doughnuts?
AA only works for those who are entirely willing to quit drinking. The same as losing weight. If one is not entirely willing to commit to stop consuming what made them fat they will simply remain fat. People attend AA not only to stop drinking but also to learn how to live life without having to pick up a drink. Those who refuse to surrender will not experience the miracle I have and I've been taught not to concern myself with their excuses and opinions. Without AA I would not be typing on a laptop with my 3 month granddaughter sleeping on my chest because her parents entrusted me to do it (willingly) while her they are enjoying a well deserved weekend away (hopefully making another!).
B.M. 02/09/1996
AA only works for those who are entirely willing to quit drinking. The same as losing weight. If one is not entirely willing to commit to stop consuming what made them fat they will simply remain fat. People attend AA not only to stop drinking but also to learn how to live life without having to pick up a drink. Those who refuse to surrender will not experience the miracle I have and I've been taught not to concern myself with their excuses and opinions. Without AA I would not be typing on a laptop with my 3 month granddaughter sleeping on my chest because her parents entrusted me to do it (willingly) while her they are enjoying a well deserved weekend away (hopefully making another!).
B.M. 02/09/1996
It also DOESNT work fro people entirely willing to quit. Funny how that happens.
Speaking for myself, being in AA made me want to drink. I never felt that sense of "relief" at meetings, only a craving to escape the endless repetition of catchphrases and slogans for the calming comfort of the nearest barroom.
My dad on the other hand has 35 years in AA and seems very happy with it.
So, explain to me why this is "habit" for one person and a "disease" for someone else? Doesn't it come down to will power? If you are an alcoholic and you get arrested for a crime and go to jail, aren't you essentially "forced" to quit cold turkey? Unless they let you drink in prison, i dont know if they do or not.
Doesn't it really just come down to will power and desire? How is quitting drinking different from a fat person who is addicted to sweets to quit visiting Dunkin Doughnuts?
It is very different because your body and brain can get dependent on alcohol, receptors are created in your brain that demand the drug...people can die while going through withdrawal. From Wiki "Withdrawal reactions due to physical dependence on alcohol are the most dangerous and can be fatal. They often lead to physical effects including shivering, palpitations, sweating and, in the most extreme cases, convulsions and death if not treated.[5]Delirium tremens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you have never had an addiction, you will never understand though. I never had an alcohol probem but I have battled nicotine addiction my whole life (currently 3 months smoke free) so I know it's not as easy as "just stop", but again I can see how someone who doesn't struggle with addiction issues would fail to understand the difficulties involved with stopping.
So, explain to me why this is "habit" for one person and a "disease" for someone else? Doesn't it come down to will power? If you are an alcoholic and you get arrested for a crime and go to jail, aren't you essentially "forced" to quit cold turkey? Unless they let you drink in prison, i don't know if they do or not.
Doesn't it really just come down to will power and desire? How is quitting drinking different from a fat person who is addicted to sweets to quit visiting Dunkin Doughnuts?
From a mental health perspective, no. Think about it. Food is necessary to survive. A fat person quits eating sweets, and they MIGHT lose weight, will almost certainly be healthier, but it really isn't going to make their life different. It isn't as if they won't be trusted with their child/grandchild because they have hypertension or high cholesterol. Also, they can go back to Dunkin Donuts, have a donut, and not ruin their health/weight loss journey, relationship with their family, etc. Some alcoholics have one beer and its off to the races and off the rails.
I don't have any personal experience with AA or whatnot, but the numbers that I see as far as success rates make me question why its the first direction we send people. I know it works wonders for some people, but it seems like we as a society treat it as a one size fits all.
Also, it should NOT be a substitute for mental healthcare. I mean, if you're a veteran who drinks too heavily and has PTSD from seeing things in Vietnam or the Sandbox, addiction might as much of a symptom as anything, and the desire to drink drastically reduced by psychotherapy.
If you're going to meetings and still suffering from extreme anxiety, depression, whatever, going to more meetings and talking with your sponsor isn't going to help you with your depression and anxiety. It will allow you to be sober while depressed and anxious, but nothing more.
There are a lot of reasonable responses here from AA members, which itself goes against the grain of many critical beliefs that AA promotes dogmatism, intolerance and blind obedience to a one-method-fits all approach.
I have no quibble whatsoever with the fact that there indeed many alternative treatments for alcohol addiction; nor with the fact that AA success rates are low, as measured by the yardstick of 5-years of continuous abstinence. It jives with what I have observed.
But all of the information about AA and all of the alternatives is pretty spotty when it comes to defining their success in a comparative framework.
It is unfortunate that the debate over alcoholism recovery methods has become so polarized: science vs. religion.
What i liked about AA when I started is that it helped me identify myself as an alcohol addict; it gave me hope that I could shake my addiction; didn't bind me to inflexible framework to do so; gave me some behavioral rules I could follow and track the consequences in my own life and pushed me into action to do something about my addiction. For me, it was a pragmatic approach, based very much on the main-stream trends of early American pragmatism. The fact that it might help me to believe in a benevolent "higher power" who had a will for me to become a happier and more productive person ended up being..., well,...helpful in pointing my action in new directions and it was testable through experience.
Think about this AA "slogan": "it's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than it is to think your way into a new way of acting".
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) so I know it's not as easy as "just stop", but again I can see how someone who doesn't struggle with addiction issues would fail to understand the difficulties involved with stopping.
