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That's a rhetorical question for me but is it universally understood? I'm surprised at how many tangential forums sprang up on this site.
Political and scientific debates with anonymous people lack instant feedback, meaning you can't compel someone to answer a logical question if they choose to ignore it repeatedly. In ignoring it they usually reveal their deception but don't have to admit it. That gap in online conversations leads to exercises in futility. I think the Internet is increasing entrenchment more than it's spreading knowledge.
Of course people tend to be more polite in person, since conflict-avoidance is natural and they have to look you in the eye. Online debates have the advantage of cutting to core differences but that's a tricky path. Imagine how much worse Congress would be in online-only text sessions.
If you follow debate threads on various sites, you rarely see people write "Well, thanks for the link. I guess those scientists are smarter than Joe The Plumber and more honest than John The Shill." No, you mostly see canned insults and links to TheTRUTHAboutThisAndThat.com. It's not a good sign for human progress. All this digital technology and the same old tunnel-vision getting worse.
Moderator cut: against forum guidelines
Moderator cut: cooyrighted material
Online debate can prove frustrating for the direct participants, indeed. However, consider the readers.
Even if the parties directly involved in the debate change sides, readers have a chance to SEE both sides engaged with each other, in a way you don't see on news shows, with all the shouting over each other.
If one side is petty, childish, and calling names, inferences can be made about the strength of their argument. This isn't foolproof, as sometimes petty and childish people are correct, but people who do engage in online debate should consider the impact their tone may have.
I think it is good for all of us to step outside the echo chamber of people who agree with us. Exposing ourselves to opposing points of view is a good thing, even if it doesn't change our minds. Indeed, based on the quality of the opposing argument, it may in fact reinforce our convictions.
I believe online debate, if conducted with a little mutual respect, hones our critical thinking skills and forces us to back up our preconceived notions.
I have had some attitudes change as a result of debate with some from across the fence. Even if my actual policy position is unchanged, I view my opponents more as human beings than caricatures. In some cases, anyway - there are some people who are so predictably contained in a political ideology box that they remain a cliche in my mind.
I doubt anyone has ever changed their mind based on a debate on the internet.
Even in other forums where people are seeking advice about a decision, the OP seems to already have their mind made up and only posts to get validation under the guise of seeking advice.
I believe my blood pressure was raised yesterday by a debate on another forum. I should have gotten up and away from the computer until I was calm enough to reply in a polite manner. I was wrong in how I handled the situation and I have no doubt that I'll be reported for it.
I have to agree with VJDAY that some posters have their minds made up and are only seeking validation and are unwilling to look at both sides of the story.
Last edited by cam1957; 04-12-2015 at 08:05 AM..
Reason: wording
I agree... It can get frustrating at times. Just like you said - you can use logic and and prove your position is correct and while the other person agrees with the facts as you go along, but when you prove the conclusion and your point is made, the other debater just ignores the conclusion, and basically just restates his opening position again, basically making people start from scratch again to prove him wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VJDAY81445
I doubt anyone has ever changed their mind based on a debate on the internet.
Even in other forums where people are seeking advice about a decision, the OP seems to already have their mind made up and only posts to get validation under the guise of seeking advice.
I disagree completely, both directly and indirectly.
As an example, I have two degrees in AstroPhysics, but they are dated. I do try to keep up with what is going on in the field, but there have been a couple times that the theories I remembered have been revised and they were able to point out the multiple papers on it. There were a lot of things written like
"Burn"!!!
"Toast" etc. when I conceded I wasn't as up to date as I thought I was.
In terms of indirectly changing your mind. Many people read conversations between people on topics where it is clear that both individuals know more about the subject than I do. Usually I can pick out the scientific responses vs. the emotional responses, but you do have to verify the scientific facts. But I can say I've changed my mind on certain legislation because I had not read the entire bill and once they pointed out what was wrong with it, I completely reversed my position.
Some of these forums are like Soap Operas where the same topics appear each week with the same arguments and just different actors. A select few, you can actually learn a lot.. Some of these threads are so long, it takes an entire night just to get to the end and then you have no idea what the OP was asking for.
I doubt anyone has ever changed their mind based on a debate on the internet.
Even in other forums where people are seeking advice about a decision, the OP seems to already have their mind made up and only posts to get validation under the guise of seeking advice.
You summed it up well. I revisited this thread after forgetting that I posted it, and noticed a moderator cut, which I also forgot the content of. Potential moderator bias is also part of the problem. I see a lot of wacky comments that don't get cut here.
I doubt anyone has ever changed their mind based on a debate on the internet.
Even in other forums where people are seeking advice about a decision, the OP seems to already have their mind made up and only posts to get validation under the guise of seeking advice.
This doesn't have to apply.
On several occasions I have had my viewpoint changed by a well structured debate. The problem is "quality" debates are pretty rare.
Most threads are shouting matches under the guise of debates and quite depressing to read.
Some pet hates of mine;
All issues are black and white with no room for shades of grey.
No substantiation of claims.
In the face of any criticism skip onto something else.
Use of identity rather then debate of issues, your an x therefore you believe a b c etc.
Simple solutions to complex problems.
I doubt anyone has ever changed their mind based on a debate on the internet.
Even in other forums where people are seeking advice about a decision, the OP seems to already have their mind made up and only posts to get validation under the guise of seeking advice.
I have. A few of my opinions were based on what I thought were facts and then someone else would link to another source that contradicted what I thought I knew and looking into it further, I found my information was inaccurate. Not sure you will believe me and change your opinion though.
I do not think most take on line debates any more serious as when in high school debate class. Most others are just arguing which is quite different thing.
On several occasions I have had my viewpoint changed by a well structured debate. The problem is "quality" debates are pretty rare.
Most threads are shouting matches under the guise of debates and quite depressing to read.
Some pet hates of mine;
All issues are black and white with no room for shades of grey.
No substantiation of claims.
In the face of any criticism skip onto something else.
Use of identity rather then debate of issues, your an x therefore you believe a b c etc.
Simple solutions to complex problems.
I pretty much agree.
In the past week in participating in the discussion on the government providing internet access to inner city housing, I have begun to look at the issue differently, going from strongly in favor of to slightly against.
Yes, black and white in discussions, rarely gray.
Foolish responses on both sides of many issues, and even foolish titles of threads.
Right, little substantiation of claims, although in some discussions we are talking about opinions, rather than facts.
And certainly correct in saying that there is an almost total lack of understanding that many issues are incredibly complex.
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