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Old 05-07-2015, 06:01 PM
 
722 posts, read 1,328,130 times
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PLANET of the Apes

The film tells the story of an astronaut crew who crash land on a strange planet in the distant future. Although the planet appears desolate at first, the surviving crew members stumble upon a society in which apes have evolved into creatures with human-like intelligence and speech. The apes have assumed the role of the dominant species and humans are mute creatures wearing animal skins.

before departing the ship, Taylor notes that the year is AD 3978, approximately two millenia after their departure in 1972.

if there really was a Nuclear war that destroyed modern mankind, wouldnt it take much longer than 2,000 years for the earth to be inhabitable again?

I guess the radiation caused mutations? and the apes rose above man? if the apes developed their own language, I doubt it would be modern English, more likely a primitive language

plus the apes had modern firearms, rifles , sub machine guns, etc, but they didnt appear to have the modern industry to produce or manufacture those types of things?
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
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Planet of the Apes is science fiction, and anything is possible in scifi.

That said, I definitely agree that the time line is totally implausible. While the Earth could certainly become "habitable" again in 2000 years (Chernobyl is NOT a vegetative wasteland and is full of animals), the consequences of a nuclear war (nuclear winter) that wiped out humans (or just human civilization) would have also wiped out virtually all large species. 2000 years is simply not enough time, from a biological perspective, for new, mutated species to emerge. Nor is it long enough for a new species to then build a civilization starting from scratch.

The agricultural revolution -- when people started farming and herding rather than simply hunting and gathering -- occurred about 10,000 years ago in the Neolithic period. By 2000 years ago, human had already made a tremendous amount of significant technological advances (fire, tools, the wheel, religion, domestication of plants and animals, building with stone, metal working, urbanization, astronomy, writing, mathematics, etc) that enabled them to create a series of civilizations ... with the knowledge of previous and/or current culture eventually being shared and spread to emerging ones to mix with new ideas. It then took human civilizations another 2 millennia to get from there (the Roman Empire) to where we are now (modern civilization).
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
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As for the new species building from scratch...
In the reboot, they were highly intelligent super-apes...so I think the simple society they had was plausible.
The rest...eh.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
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Planet of the Apes was a fun, very clever Sci Fi movie that poked fun at human society. It was also a type of environmental film that started with a common sci fi theme, the threat of atomic war and its aftermath. This was a real threat back in the 60's with the cold war raging.

The last ape movie was a prequal of sorts and it showed how the apes evolved.

Is it possible who knows. I don't the movie can be or should be dissected just grab some popcorn and enjoy it for what it is. and oh yeah "get your paws off me you damn dirty ape"
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Clovis Strong, NM
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With the ruins of the former human cities still containing "artifacts" and orangutans like Zaius knowing what really happened to humans, I could see some forms of light industry being dedicated to simple firearms for ape military purposes.

Also, like many other sci-fi movies with planetary exploration, we only see one particular part of the planet.
For all we know, there could be a similar surviving set of humans on another part of the future Earth that are at the same tech level as these apes.
But with travel being limited to foot and horse, none of these groups seemed to have branched out far beyond their own zones to establish relations.
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Old 05-17-2015, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentstrider View Post
........Also, like many other sci-fi movies with planetary exploration, we only see one particular part of the planet.
For all we know, there could be a similar surviving set of humans on another part of the future Earth that are at the same tech level as these apes.
But with travel being limited to foot and horse, none of these groups seemed to have branched out far beyond their own zones to establish relations.
Reminds me of another movie where they ask how could the crew not know they were over an inhabited planet and the answer was that their entry orbit took them over oceans and deserts, largely uninhabited regions.

With POTA, there was the advantage that they crashed in hibernation and hence could be so ignorant.

Back to the question, since how and with what that war was fought is unknown, it's up to the imagination to see how a possible change could have come about. After all, perhaps that war opened up a time rift or two that moved the entire planet forward or backward and then forward in time to create the situations we saw in the movie.

It's a sci fi movie, watch it, dream about the possibilities, enjoy it.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,809,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green papaya View Post
PLANET of the Apes

The film tells the story of an astronaut crew who crash land on a strange planet in the distant future. Although the planet appears desolate at first, the surviving crew members stumble upon a society in which apes have evolved into creatures with human-like intelligence and speech. The apes have assumed the role of the dominant species and humans are mute creatures wearing animal skins.

before departing the ship, Taylor notes that the year is AD 3978, approximately two millenia after their departure in 1972.

if there really was a Nuclear war that destroyed modern mankind, wouldnt it take much longer than 2,000 years for the earth to be inhabitable again?
No. In fact, it would take no time at all. Even a full-scale toss of thousands of modern nuclear devices would make the entire planet uninhabitable. It would only make very small parts of it uninhabitable, and only for a fairly short time.

The fireball and blast wave and burst radiation that pulses out instantaneously at detonation would kill people nearby. But even a massive nuclear weapon (ex: 20 megatons) would only deal complete destruction out to a few miles. Cover, say in a basement, would protect one from the blast and thermal and pulse radiation even within 20 miles of the detonation.

Also, no deployed modern nukes are that large. The reason behind large nukes was that in the past, targeting technology was such that a nuke had to be big enough to take out its target even if it missed by a few miles. Today, ballistic missiles can be delivered reliably to within a few hundred meters of a target, rendering the need for massive yields unnecessary. For example, the modern American ICBM force of Minuteman III missiles delivers w78 and w87 warheads, which all have yields of less than half a megaton (between 300 kt and 475 kt). Russian ICBM-delivered warheads are all below 1 MT as well - here's some interesting reading on the nuclear arsenals of the world, for those interested.
World Nuclear Weapon Stockpiles | Ploughshares Fund

Now, surviving the fallout is another story. There are various problematic radioactive isotopes produced by nuclear blasts. One example is iodine-131. But I-131 has a half-life of eight days, which means that seven weeks after a nuclear blast, more than 99% of all of the I-131 produced has decayed and is no longer present. So, take a place like eastern North Dakota. Just west of the mid-point of the state is Minot Air Force Base, where 150 ICBMs sit in missile silos. In a full-scale nuclear war, we could expect that Russia would allocate at least one nuclear weapon to each of those silos. Each detonation would be a ground burst, producing enormous amounts of fallout. Devils Lake, 100 miles to the east, is beyond the range of any blast or thermal or pulse radiation danger, but it would get a nice blanket of highly-toxic dust settling down on it. It would be unlivable for weeks - above ground that is. But four months later? Less than 1 in every 2 million I-313 atoms produced by the nuclear blasts would still be present. Oh, to be sure there are other longer-lived isotopes. But they kill over the long-term by elevating cancer rates. Remember, in the 1950s more than 100 nuclear weapons were detonated in the desert less than 100 miles from Las Vegas. And these were atmospheric tests - ie, above ground. Did they result in cancer that killed some people? Absolutely. But it hardly impacted the city in any noticeable way.

And North Dakota? As I said, that's a worst-case scenario. There are others. You wouldn't want to live on Long Island (downwind from New York, which would get a sizable allocation of nukes) or the Delmarva Peninsula (downwind from DC, not to mention Baltimore). And downwind from major metropolitan areas, ports, airports, and military bases would all be bad places. But how about the Oregon coast? The nearest upwind targets from there are all the way across the Pacific. The long-term cancer rate would surely rise there, but that hardly means it would be uninhabitable. In fact, the vast majority of the surface area of the planet would not be rendered uninhabitable for so much as a day, much less 2000 years.

Would life suck? Definitely. Some sort of nuclear winter would temporarily lower global temperatures, and crops would fail. The global economy would be destroyed, civil order shattered, the infrastructure obliterated on a large scale. But even in the absolute worst-case scenario, there would still be hundreds of millions of people on the planet, and the global population would likely never dip below ten figures (a billion).

One final note:
At the end of the second film, Beneath The Planet Of The Apes, Taylor (Charlton Heston) detonates a doomsday bomb which destroys all life on the planet. This would not happen.

While there is a theoretical device often called a 'doomsday bomb' (or 'cobalt bomb', or 'salted bomb'), so far as is known no power has ever built one. It works by producing the radioactive isotope cobalt-60, which has a half-life long enough (about 5 years) that it won't decay soon enough to ride out its effects underground, and short enough that it is intensely lethal for a period of some years. However, this would still not kill off the population of the planet immediately, and it would take many such bombs (delivered at properly spaced intervals) to poison the entire planet's surface with a lethal dose of Co-60 - but only one bomb was detonated in the film (also, after 2000 years, leftover nuclear weapons would no longer work - the heavy water and fissile material would have long since decayed to where they would not function).

And as to the possibility of whether or not one or more countries have secretly built a doomsday device?

Well, I'll let Dr. Strangelove himself explain that:
Quote:
"Deterrence is the art of producing, in the mind of the enemy, the fear to attack. The whole point of the doomsday machine is lost if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo

Planet Of The Apes was entertaining - but don't take the science too seriously.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,652 posts, read 13,978,128 times
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One must keep a certain perspective in mind.

Here, we are talking about the capacity of doing this or that with the weapons we have now or then and anything more is impossible.

Okay, POTA was like what we are now or then.................WITH ONE WHOOPING MASSIVELY BIG DIFFERENCE.

They had the capacity to launch at least two manned near to faster than light space craft. Not just experimental, first stages, but they had the entire infrastructure, with not only prototype if not production model spacecraft, but a trained astronaut pool to be able to handle such a mission and the ground support to boot.

We are nowhere near that, not back in '68, not now.

So story wise, if they had such a capability to do that, who knows what else they may have had, either in public or in secret.
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