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Europeans of course. But India Indians (the ones I know came as intern doctors) assimilate very well. They know English excellently, and come here to get away from the heat, the floods, and streets full of cow dung. They usually become quite Americanized (aside from that vegan junk) and actually contribute useful skills and stuff. Almost all the ones I know have kids at the very apex of accomplishment, in a variety of fields. I give those people full credit.
And of course the Indians who you know are the highly educated ones. This isn't a function of what Indians are. Its a function of what being highly educated is. If more poor uneducated Indians migrated to the USA their experience in the USA would be very different.
But as you speak, you are probably not aware that Indians are very proud of their identity and culture, and think poorly of those of their US born off spring who completely assimilate into white US culture. Indians operate from an assumption that one can simultaneously learn and incorporate that which some one needs to attain occupational mobility in the USA, without dumping essential elements of what being Indian is. They are excellent examples of selective assimilation, but not full integration.
You may not know what "ABCD" means. It is an "American Born Confused Desi". There are active programs among Indian communities to "save" their kids from marrying outsiders, meaning any one who isn't Indian.
And of course the Indians who you know are the highly educated ones. This isn't a function of what Indians are. Its a function of what being highly educated is. If more poor uneducated Indians migrated to the USA their experience in the USA would be very different.
But as you speak, you are probably not aware that Indians are very proud of their identity and culture, and think poorly of those of their US born off spring who completely assimilate into white US culture. Indians operate from an assumption that one can simultaneously learn and incorporate that which some one needs to attain occupational mobility in the USA, without dumping essential elements of what being Indian is. They are excellent examples of selective assimilation, but not full integration.
You may not know what "ABCD" means. It is an "American Born Confused Desi". There are active programs among Indian communities to "save" their kids from marrying outsiders, meaning any one who isn't Indian.
Simple question here, but how would a poor uneducated Indian migrate to the US? There is no legal way, except the Green Card Lottery or the marriage, so I really don't see how they would make it through.
And even if some manage to do so, surely they're not the majority of the people migrating here. But I don't have the numbers to hand so maybe they will prove me wrong. It's just that the legal framework does not seem to favour at all such profiles' immigration.
Europe doesn't do a good job in assimilating its immigrants, EVEN those from other parts of Europe. Look at all the angst in the UK about Eastern European immigrants!
It's because Europe doesn't assimilate at all, it asks its immigration, maybe rightfully, to fully embrace the language, the history and the values of the country they choose as their residence, should they want to become a citizen. So no melting pot, but a unique framework.
In a way, it's understandable.
However, it's not always working out, e.g. the demonstrations in UK or in France, and surely in some other European countries.
From the responses, it seems to equate with one's ability to blend into and become apart of "American whiteness." Mexicans blend just as quickly as East and South Asians. The difference is that for every Mexican that assimilates, three more arrive as brand new immigrants, legal or otherwise. It ends up appearing as if non-Cuban Latinos don't assimilate into the broader white culture, even though most do after two-ish generations.
Africans are a large and varied group from Nigerians to Somalis to South Africans and Sudanese. Most of these immigrants "assimilate" but because they are black in appearance, little thought is given to their cohesion within American culture. Once the children no longer speak Igbo, Wolof, Xhosa and Yoruba, they just become educated black people and aren't seen as an extension of whiteness the way Asians are.
Asians are not viewed as a competitive threat and the women often marry white males after the 1st generation. WASPS' desire to view themselves as hard working, tough, smart (basically any positive trait they assign to themselves and believe isn't possessed by the blacks and browns) etc., leads them to identifying with Asians. WASPS think that Asians act like WASPS, which is why they are successful. Basically, a dog whistle to blacks and browns that if "you act like us, you'd get ahead." Not realizing that Asians REFUSAL to act like WASPS is why they get ahead. A typical misunderstanding of culture. Attempting to appropriate the positives of someone else's culture as your own.
Who do you consider Asian? East Asians, South East Asians or Indians? Or altogether? They are certainly not the same groups.
I am not sure why you would say that it's the refusal to act like WASPS that pushed the Asians ahead. At least for East Asians, I am pretty sure it's their will to take over all the characteristics of the WASPS that is pushing them ahead:
- High value in education
- Working hard
- Sometimes even from a religious standpoint (many Christians, Protestants or Catholics, among them)
In short, a sort of extreme version of some of the WASPS values.
There is a Confucian factor that creates a different social structure within their families and that might be a difference, but that one is getting lost quite rapidly once the children integrate the Western culture and are becoming more creative, but also more egocentric.
By the way, if we're being objective, every single ethnic group considers those values as being key to success, so it's not specific to WASPS. Maybe the religious one can be different since they're not all Christians, e.g. Jews, but still, the point holds.
And talking about African Americans, what about this link?
I think the numbers are quite interesting, and hopefully, people will realize that all those stereotypes are simply misleading and wrong. Once they will be lifted, assimilation should only be a matter of time then.
Who do you consider Asian? East Asians, South East Asians or Indians? Or altogether? They are certainly not the same groups.
I am not sure why you would say that it's the refusal to act like WASPS that pushed the Asians ahead. At least for East Asians, I am pretty sure it's their will to take over all the characteristics of the WASPS that is pushing them ahead:
- High value in education
- Working hard
- Sometimes even from a religious standpoint (many Christians, Protestants or Catholics, among them)
In short, a sort of extreme version of some of the WASPS values.
There is a Confucian factor that creates a different social structure within their families and that might be a difference, but that one is getting lost quite rapidly once the children integrate the Western culture and are becoming more creative, but also more egocentric.
By the way, if we're being objective, every single ethnic group considers those values as being key to success, so it's not specific to WASPS. Maybe the religious one can be different since they're not all Christians, e.g. Jews, but still, the point holds.
And talking about African Americans, what about this link?
I think the numbers are quite interesting, and hopefully, people will realize that all those stereotypes are simply misleading and wrong. Once they will be lifted, assimilation should only be a matter of time then.
"Asian" includes all of the groups you mentioned. It's much easier than saying Pakistani, Indian (huge difference between someone born in Uttar Pradesh versus Kerala), Bangladeshi, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean etc.
The immigrants' values were already in place when they arrived on U.S. soil. There's nothing inherently wrong with WASPiness, but it's disingenuous to claim that immigrants' acceptance of WASP culture is what allows them to succeed. There steadfastness in holding onto their own values is what allows them to succeed. Many of my best friends are Nigerian, Vietnamese, Eritrean, Ethiopian, north Indian and Korean. There's absolutely nothing WASPY about their upbringings or culture yet they (on average) far outpace my WASP-born and raised white friends in terms of educational and professional achievement.
I do realize, speaking English, can be of help in quickening the assimilation of immigrants, but that's only part of the assimilation process.
I just finished reading La Storia/5 Centuries of the Italian American Experience, and, on average, it took the 3rd generation to become all but assimilated.
When I lived in Minneapolis, they have brought over a number of Somalians, and even today, it doesn't appear that's they've assimilated, or wish to. My brother lived across the street from an apartment building full of these immigrants, and he'd find them throwing garbage bags outside their 3rd floor windows, as late as the early 90's, and still wearing their Burka's.
And how long will it take for the Syrian refugees expected to arrive here?
And is it really necessary for all of them to assimilate? And can we live with that?
Immigrants who come from an English speaking country. Example my parents come from Guyana in South America, the only speaking country in that region. My cousins, other relatives and so on were able to move out of the city into suburbia, own property, finish college, move on to masters, obtain professional jobs or careers and so on. The mastery of the English language is a must for an immigrant to excel in the states.
I think the numbers are quite interesting, and hopefully, people will realize that all those stereotypes are simply misleading and wrong. Once they will be lifted, assimilation should only be a matter of time then.
Wonder how many are from South Africa? Don't assume an African-American is black. Most Moroccans certainly are not, and many South Africans are not either. Your link does not give any indication the ethnic makeup of those immigrants. My ex girl friend was an African-American. She was paler than I am, and I am of Nordic ethnicity.
Wonder how many are from South Africa? Don't assume an African-American is black. Most Moroccans certainly are not, and many South Africans are not either. Your link does not give any indication the ethnic makeup of those immigrants. My ex girl friend was an African-American. She was paler than I am, and I am of Nordic ethnicity.
Not many...most of these Africans are Nigerian, Ethiopian, Eritrean etc. Go to any university in the country and you'll see that. Black Africans...so you don't have to worry about trying to attribute black achievement to whites. Nice try though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013
Not many...most of these Africans are Nigerian, Ethiopian, Eritrean etc. Go to any university in the country and you'll see that. Black Africans...so you don't have to worry about trying to attribute black achievement to whites. Nice try though.
I was not trying anything other than wondering that your assertion is backed by a link that doesn't give more information.
You are extrapolating a conclusion with anecdotal information (above) and an incomplete article. I'd love to see the real story. Yes, I suspect that we will see people from Nigeria for sure, but the article discusses what happens after university, not before or at.
So, do you have further information?
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