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Old 12-01-2015, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,926 posts, read 24,432,298 times
Reputation: 33013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
We need the oil right now but in the future who knows? Supposedly there is more oil and natural gas in America than over there in the ME but of course getting to it is a burden of red tape and environmental hurdles.
Our Gov. seems to be against tapping into the domestic fuels. Obama recently blocked a proposed pipeline.

I would like to think that our Gov. is smart and the plan is that when the oil in the ME runs out, oil that we are paying for on the open market plus the piles of money that is sent over to ensure that the oil keeps flowing..... not to mention that by funneling money we are actually supporting terrorism.... that when their oil runs out we can tap our reserves and start selling to them. America could be rich! BUT of course this wouldn't happen because we would still be sending millions to them to help support their crumbling society.

Oil lubricates our society and we will always pay a high price for it.
You act as if "environmental hurdles" are just some pesky annoyance. I can only assume that you've visited places like Love Canal, old mining claims throughout Colorado, coal country in Pennsylvania...and seen the forever-damage we have done, resulting in Superfund cleanups to curb human cancer and other related diseases. There is, of course, balance needed, but we've experienced in our nation's past how big business abuses the environment for $$$$$.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
9,569 posts, read 5,638,588 times
Reputation: 12025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
We need the oil right now but in the future who knows? Supposedly there is more oil and natural gas in America than over there in the ME but of course getting to it is a burden of red tape and environmental hurdles.
Our Gov. seems to be against tapping into the domestic fuels. Obama recently blocked a proposed pipeline.

I would like to think that our Gov. is smart and the plan is that when the oil in the ME runs out, oil that we are paying for on the open market plus the piles of money that is sent over to ensure that the oil keeps flowing..... not to mention that by funneling money we are actually supporting terrorism.... that when their oil runs out we can tap our reserves and start selling to them. America could be rich! BUT of course this wouldn't happen because we would still be sending millions to them to help support their crumbling society.

Oil lubricates our society and we will always pay a high price for it.
Let's set the record straight here before you blame Obama for this! The Keystone pipeline was to transport Canadian Oil to Houston for refining and to ship the end product to foreign markets.
This pipeline and the OIL being shipped would have never seen the US Oil market.
There was also a lot of opposition from the state of Nebraska regarding the Environmental impact on the
Ogallala Aquifer which runs through 5 Mid-Western states :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer

Saudi Arabia our so called "Middle east ally" is trying to kill the US Shale industry by increasing production driving the global price of a barrel of Oil down to what is around $40 or so.

It costs SA about $10 a barrel to break even when they pump. So at $40 a barrel they are make 4 times the profit.

Let's not even start how Saudi Arabia supports Wahhabism which is the radical branch of Islam's ultra conservatives!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,724 posts, read 21,254,928 times
Reputation: 14823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Let's set the record straight here before you blame Obama for this! The Keystone pipeline was to transport Canadian Oil to Houston for refining and to ship the end product to foreign markets.
This pipeline and the OIL being shipped would have never seen the US Oil market.
There was also a lot of opposition from the state of Nebraska regarding the Environmental impact on the
Ogallala Aquifer which runs through 5 Mid-Western states....
As long as we're setting the record straight, Keystone Pipeline would also carry oil from the Bakken in North Dakota and Montana. By doing that, it would have reduced rail shipments which are comparatively dangerous. (Hmmmm... who owns those railroads?)

It's ONE short pipeline that crosses the Canadian Border and continues to the Keystone Pipeline in Nebraska. It would account for a small portion (waaaay under 1%) of oil pipelines in the country. Most Canadian oil would be sold to foreign markets after refining, not all of it.

The concerns with the Ogallala are generally unfounded, according to experts.

So to set the record straight, Obama's rejection of the pipeline was purely political at best. I won't guess what it was at worst.

No, we should do all we can to avoid buying oil from OPEC nations. Our dependence on their oil is perhaps our biggest weakness.

Last edited by WyoNewk; 12-01-2015 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:30 PM
 
2,609 posts, read 4,364,041 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Let's set the record straight here before you blame Obama for this! The Keystone pipeline was to transport Canadian Oil to Houston for refining and to ship the end product to foreign markets.
This pipeline and the OIL being shipped would have never seen the US Oil market.
There was also a lot of opposition from the state of Nebraska regarding the Environmental impact on the
Ogallala Aquifer which runs through 5 Mid-Western states :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer

Saudi Arabia our so called "Middle east ally" is trying to kill the US Shale industry by increasing production driving the global price of a barrel of Oil down to what is around $40 or so.

It costs SA about $10 a barrel to break even when they pump. So at $40 a barrel they are make 4 times the profit.

Let's not even start how Saudi Arabia supports Wahhabism which is the radical branch of Islam's ultra conservatives!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism
The pipeline would have also carried American oil out of the Bakken.

How the Keystone XL Pipeline Would Impact the Bakken

They also proposed a reroute that was approved by the governor of Nebraska that no longer put the aquifer at risk.

Nebraska governor OKs rerouted Keystone XL pipeline - The Denver Post

Saudi Arabia cannot pump oil out of the ground for $10/barrel. If the current $40/barrel price were to remain the Saudi's would be broke in just over 2 years. They are losing money and some of their princes have vocalized their displeasure at this tactic to try and run out American oil.

Saudi Arabia hangs on with cheap oil

If we are setting the record straight, I think factual information should come first. Much of what you stated is either factually inaccurate or outdated and no longer true.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Florida
9,569 posts, read 5,638,588 times
Reputation: 12025
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
As long as we're setting the record straight, Keystone Pipeline would also carry oil from the Bakken in North Dakota and Montana. By doing that, it would have reduced rail shipments which are comparatively dangerous. (Hmmmm... who owns those railroads?)

It's ONE short pipeline that crosses the Canadian Border and continues to the Keystone Pipeline in Nebraska. It would account for a small portion (waaaay under 1%) of oil pipelines in the country. Most Canadian oil would be sold to foreign markets after refining, not all of it.

The concerns with the Ogallala are generally unfounded, according to experts.

So to set the record straight, Obama's rejection of the pipeline was purely political at best. I won't guess what it was at worst.

No, we should do all we can to avoid buying oil from OPEC nations. Our dependence on their oil is perhaps our biggest weakness.
I agree /disagree on certain points:

Keystone Pipeline would also carry oil from the Bakken in North Dakota and Montana. By doing that, it would have reduced rail shipments which are comparatively dangerous. (Hmmmm... who owns those railroads?)

Yes rail shipments are more dangerous.

The concerns with the Ogallala are generally unfounded, according to experts.

I disagree since any transfer over a environmentally sensitive Aquifer is a cause for concern.

Obama's rejection of the pipeline was purely political at best.

Well Obama could have rejected the XL Pipeline years ago. Is it "political" now?

No, we should do all we can to avoid buying oil from OPEC nations. Our dependence on their oil is perhaps our biggest weakness.

Agreed. We should not be dependent on OPEC nations for Oil especially from Saudi Arabia or do people forget the Gas Lines of the 1970's & the Arab Oil Embargo then?

We have enough Oil in the US to whereas we can meet domestic needs but somehow Oil companies are selling our Alaskan crude to starves resourced nations like Japan:

Alaska oil, exported for first time in a decade, heads to South Korea - LA Times
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:05 PM
 
2,563 posts, read 3,688,876 times
Reputation: 3573
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
The world embargoed South African for apartheid policy's until they changed in 1994. Should we continue to purchase oil from country's that still hand out the death penalty for blasphemy. I don't understand why we support country's like this are barbaric cultures living like we are in the 14th century.

Outrage over Saudi death sentence for poet - CNN.com
I hate to break the news to you, but corporate America has no morals, so long as there is money to be made.
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: USA
18,509 posts, read 9,185,869 times
Reputation: 8537
Yes, since we are (economically) addicted to their oil.

Nobody ever said drug dealers were nice people.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,248 posts, read 825,484 times
Reputation: 1915
I believe the fewer embargoes, sanctions and other obstacles to free trade there is in the world, the better for everyone. Free trade leads to greater prosperity and higher quality of life, and people who are satisfied with their quality of life (as opposed to being dirt poor, driven into a corner and desperate) are much less prone to being brainwashed by violent ideologies. Ah yes, and the sanctions from Russia should be lifted too. You will not achieve anything by making the little man there poorer than he already is.
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:55 PM
 
14,422 posts, read 14,344,428 times
Reputation: 45829
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
The world embargoed South African for apartheid policy's until they changed in 1994. Should we continue to purchase oil from country's that still hand out the death penalty for blasphemy. I don't understand why we support country's like this are barbaric cultures living like we are in the 14th century.

Outrage over Saudi death sentence for poet - CNN.com
There's the way we would like the world to be and than there is the way the world is. Saudi Arabia continues to deny human rights to women and many men for that matter. There is much about their country that I disapprove of. However, that's what trade is all about. We go overseas to import things from other countries that we need to make our economy run more efficiently. Saudi Arabia sits on top of an ocean of oil and can sell that oil cheaper per barrel than almost any place in this world.

There is another point that ought to be discussed though. I think the problem in Saudi Arabia has less to do with the King and the government than it does with Islamic fundamentalism. My sense is the King and the highest people in the land would actually like to give women the right to drive and many other rights. The difficulty is that the opposition is not political. Its religious and cultural. In other words, a large number of people within the country want things to stay the way that they are.

In any event, I see little to be gained by not trading with Saudi Arabia.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Atlantis
3,016 posts, read 3,914,768 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Should we continue to purchase oil from country's that still hand out the death penalty for blasphemy. I don't understand why we support country's like this are barbaric cultures living like we are in the 14th century.

Yep.


The strategy should be for countries like the US to keep buying oil from barbaric countries, and buy as much of it as possible, even finding a way to store all of it safely. Keep buying it, and all of it.




Then when those countries run out of oil because they sold it all.


Sit back and watch while they turn on each other and solve the world's problem in their own sandbox.
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