Exchange Our Food Stamp Program for Welfare Stores? (Ohio, documents, pay)
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Recently there was a welfare fraud bust in a nearby rural small town. The entire investigation went on for over a year before the cops rolled up and arrested the store owners and employees who were selling welfare recipients illegal products, and paying 70-cents on the dollar for SNAP cards. I'd like to know what this Big Bust cause the taxpayers, but nobody is admitting anything. I'm sure the bill is much higher than the actual fraud.
The welfare system is too easily scammed. So, why do we continue to use it.
I'd like to hear some ideas on how people would change it. We all complain about it, but never offer solutions.
My idea would be to do away with our current welfare cards. Build a Welfare Store in every neighborhood that needs one. Similar to Sam's Club, only a welfare recipient can enter and shop there. Stock these Welfare Stores with only approved goods (no beer or tobacco products). All Welfare Stores must keep their computers up-to-date with local recipient names and how much welfare money they have in their account. Nobody but the recipient can access those accounts, and yes, proof of identity will be a must every time they shop. A photo ID only. Welfare recipients can only shop in their local Welfare Stores where their names are on file. Any recipient that doesn't like that can go to work and earn the privilege of shopping wherever they want to shop.
What do you all think? Good idea? Bad? Feel free to post your thoughts and solutions. America is not about to let people starve to death, so please let's save the "Cut 'em all off welfare" arguments for another thread.
Right off the top of my head I can see issues with how this works. It is based on an assumption that everyone can access said store.
When they are against the cliff for those states, YES. Welfare needs to be a hill similar to the health insurance subsidies rather than the cliff it is today. However I am not holding my breath for it to change because too many Republicans want it just done away with completely.
Sorry, I don't know what cliff you are talking about. If I had two kids and got $185 a month in cash benefits I would probably be looking for a cliff to jump off of.
Sorry, I don't know what cliff you are talking about. If I had two kids and got $185 a month in cash benefits I would probably be looking for a cliff to jump off of.
Metaphor, basically it is like Medicaid prior to Obamacare. If I make up to the poverty line, I get Medicaid but anything over, nothing. Now with Obamacare you now have 33% over as a buffer, after that you qualify for subsidies. to cover health insurance.
They used to have a government food program..........as in people got cheese, powdered milk, etc.
And guess what, people used to take those products and sell them.....take the cash and buy ciggies, drugs, booze, etc!
Yes, addicts will sell anything for their drug of choice...is that a surprise to you? What does that have to do with the majority of recipients who are not addicts?
Most food stamp recipients DO work. You subsidize their lives because the companies they work for choose to have you pay rather than them.
Create a labor shortage and watch how fast wages go up. Problem solved.
Nursing homes do keep staffs short...until something goes wrong...then wham....they are in legal trouble...what would they do if there are 10 cna's and a need for 20 cna's? They will bid up the services for those 10 cna's.
Why would anyone stay in a job that can't pay the heating bill? It's time to move on, but hey, if you are stuck, I'll put a labor shortage out there and you can pick and choose who to work for.
I don't think all food stamp users are crooks, drugies etc...but I think a lot of them sell their food stamp cards for less than dollar value or some other scam. I do think people consider food stamps a right instead of going out and getting that part time job to pay their own way. If you give away something, it has no value, and people are not willing to work for it.
My parents both worked for 45 years. Raised six kids, never had a new car, used everything, never had a vacation, paid off their home loan, never used credit unless an emergency...1 or 2 payday's away from not having food on the table...AND NEVER APPLIED FOR FOOD STAMPS.
Sure, it's not you mom's fault. Some people never get a decent career. It's a tough life, but you have to admit, there are a lot of, a whole lot, of people don't take life serious. No drive, no desire to improve themselves, to take that part time job when they are young and can do the hours, they just give up and accept their lot in life.
I waited till my late 30's to get married. Why get married without a stable career, money, zero debt? Made no sense to bring misery into my life. I always, ALWAYS, worked a part time job, any chance to make an extra buck I jumped at it. My buddies were out having a great time, married young, debt, boats, cars, etc...now in their 50's broke, massive debt, kids could care less...looking at retiring dead broke.
I have no doubt the 1 percent screwed a lot of people, but I accept what I can change and don't worry about what I can't change. I keep at it, keep working, keep moving....
Last edited by Jeo123; 04-28-2016 at 09:28 AM..
Reason: Tag Fix
Not wanting to make government benefits is "punishing the poor"? Why should society pay for people to purchase non-essential goods that the working poor, who have the dignity and self-worth not to go on benefits, can't afford?
It's common sense that the more pleasant and convenient the government makes benefits, the less motivated people will be to get off of benefits. However, what I am reading from some people on this thread is that benefit programs should not include any sort of component that encourages people to be self-reliant.
But enough of all that. What would be so wrong and inhumane about shipping people basic rations of generic bread, milk, cheese, peanut butter, beans and canned fruits/vegatables instead of giving them a card?
Quote:
It's common sense that the more pleasant and convenient the government makes benefits, the less motivated people will be to get off of benefits.
Since you seem to be deliberately ignoring a FACT people keep bringing up to you, I'm going to deliberately drill it into your head.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
Can ya hear me now? I have half a functioning kidney. Not two like you. One half of one. And it ain't very good. You think I like relying on others to sustain me? NO!!! IT SUCKS. I want to work, I see other people going out to work every day, and I feel envy.
Now here is a bucketful of cold water to your face, to wake you up. All it will take for you to end up where I am is for the fates to go off their meds for just an instant. That's how fast life can turn on you.
Scenario: You're going to work one day behind someone driving too slow/too fast/not to your liking. You are fuming, and BAM a blood vessel in your brain goes. You have a stroke. Your working life is over. Now you are where I am, the tables have turned and people like yourself are looking down their noses at you, demonizing you, not even knowing your personal situation, and not having even basic levels of human empathy enough to care. Just "knowing" you are just one of the "lazy" poor, if only you were more motivated you could just stop being poor.
I was recently involved in the production of a documentary on American social benefits programs, including SNAP/food stamps. I'm British, so I hadn't any previous experience of people on SNAP; I'd only read things online, and those were generally scathing characterisations of beneficiaries that don't match up to objective, demonstrable reality.
If I may offer two small criticisms of JavaCoffee's thoughtful plan:
1. As ocnjgirl pointed out, SNAP recipients don't live in isolated geographical pockets. I was astonished at the sheer diversity and distribution of program recipients discovered in our research. This said, an honest individual who qualifies for SNAP is more likely than the average person to have obstacles to travelling outside their immediate neighbourhood to get to a store.
2. The cost of shop licencing and software development for the proposed scheme would utterly dwarf the cost of the limited fraud which so infuriates some people.
As others here have mentioned, the problem described in the OP isn't about the benefits recipients as much as bad actors at stores who profit from the fraud. Since fraud schemes are statistically mostly limited to convenience stores and smaller, mom-and-pop shops, the best course of action would be to simply rescind the alcohol and tobacco licences of shops where fraud occurs, if the owner can be tied directly to the fraudulent activity. If it's happening at staff level only, prosecute the offending staff and subject the shop owner/s to a fine just big enough to make them more mindful of inventory and accounting going forward. Shop owners themselves are in the best position to prevent and detect SNAP fraud.
I've heard it suggested that the above-named classes of shops not be allowed to accept SNAP cards, but as long as America continues to have the problem of 'food deserts' (areas where no larger chain grocery store exists), this simply isn't workable.
I do find it a shame to read so many stereotypes and so much vitriol about SNAP recipients. Attributions of laziness, etc. as suggested reasons for people's recourse to food benefits are simply not accurate for the vast majority of those on the program, as reported by any credible study. I also find it a bit alarming to read comments about barring the use of SNAP monies for the purchase of 'junk food' of any kind. Not only is it shocking for the attitude it reflects toward the poor, but the nutritional value of a Snickers bar is higher than that of many foods marketed as proper meal items. Where would one draw the line?
The world would be a much better place if people could keep the force of their opinions proportionate to their diligence in researching the facts of an issue. As pertains to the poor, many of us are just one bad turn of luck from joining their ranks.
This was an excellent and informative post. Thank you for posting.
I agree: I'm certain there are some cases of welfare fraud, but those are probably relatively rare, and the benefits of the program are too great to toss out because of some minor issues.
Many people hold very negative attitudes toward people on welfare, and you are correct -- these opinions are often held strongly despite being based on very little actual research. Most recipients are in a genuinely bad spot in life, and they're still human beings.
My idea would be to do away with our current welfare cards. Build a Welfare Store in every neighborhood that needs one. Similar to Sam's Club, only a welfare recipient can enter and shop there. Stock these Welfare Stores with only approved goods (no beer or tobacco products). All Welfare Stores must keep their computers up-to-date with local recipient names and how much welfare money they have in their account. Nobody but the recipient can access those accounts, and yes, proof of identity will be a must every time they shop. A photo ID only. Welfare recipients can only shop in their local Welfare Stores where their names are on file. Any recipient that doesn't like that can go to work and earn the privilege of shopping wherever they want to shop.
Grossly inefficient.
Frankly, this thread smacks of a fixation on welfare fraud that fails to see the forest for the trees. I'm reminded of the drug-testing implemented in various states, with clean results as a condition for receiving welfare. Sure enough, some savings were realized when drug-users were kicked off the welfare roles. And, sure enough, the cost of drug-testing everyone far exceeded the savings, resulting in a net loss.
Yet the proponents of such programs seem content to lose money on them - such is the antipathy towards those receiving welfare.
Meanwhile, the amount of fraudulent billing of government contractors actually is mind-boggling (and if the amount recovered in one year is $3.8 billion, you can bet the amount unrecovered and undetected is many, many times that).
Quote:
The Justice Department secured $3.8 billion in settlements and judgments from civil cases involving fraud against the government in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2013, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division Stuart F. Delery announced today. This dollar amount, which is the second largest annual recovery of its type in history, brings total recoveries under the False Claims Act since January 2009 to $ 17 billion – nearly half the total recoveries since the Act was amended 27 years ago in 1986.
Yet a poor person buying lobster with food stamps, or selling those stamps at cents on the dollar, will somehow generate more visceral and intense outrage than the CEO of some contractor who buys mansions and yachts and a private jet with all the riches he scored fleecing the government.
Since you seem to be deliberately ignoring a FACT people keep bringing up to you, I'm going to deliberately drill it into your head.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
SOME OF US CAN'T! WE'RE DISABLED. I CANNOT WORK. NO, CAN'T DOES NOT MEAN WON'T. CAN'T MEANS CAN'T. I. CANNOT. WORK. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK AGAIN.
Can ya hear me now? I have half a functioning kidney. Not two like you. One half of one. And it ain't very good. You think I like relying on others to sustain me? NO!!! IT SUCKS. I want to work, I see other people going out to work every day, and I feel envy.
Now here is a bucketful of cold water to your face, to wake you up. All it will take for you to end up where I am is for the fates to go off their meds for just an instant. That's how fast life can turn on you.
Scenario: You're going to work one day behind someone driving too slow/too fast/not to your liking. You are fuming, and BAM a blood vessel in your brain goes. You have a stroke. Your working life is over. Now you are where I am, the tables have turned and people like yourself are looking down their noses at you, demonizing you, not even knowing your personal situation, and not having even basic levels of human empathy enough to care. Just "knowing" you are just one of the "lazy" poor, if only you were more motivated you could just stop being poor.
How does it feel?
Yes or in my case some of us can and want to but are not allowed. If employers sense one thing off you they can say "nope not doing it" They worry about having to provide accommodations. There's a reason why those EEOC laws exist and sadly you can't always prove or claim that they're breaking the law.
They need to take a lot of ppl that's on Disability off SNAP...because they are cash it in to buy DRUGS..instead of food then they went to Beg you for food..AND THAT'S A BIG HELL NOOOO...GOD BLESS YOU ALL
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