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I'm sure transgender men who look like females have been using our ladies room for decades. Butch woman who appear male no doubt use the men's room, with nobody being the wiser. Why is this suddenly an issue being pushed by the LGBT?
Is nothing sacred to that group? Must we fight the activists on every issue? We all know that if they win this, our Ladies Room will be a thing of the past.
Sure, it's been going on for years, meaning that all of the "Oh, no, awful things are going to start happening" is, to be blunt, absolutely paranoid bigoted nonsense. If it were going to start happening, it would already BE happening. That it's not is a pretty good indicator.
Plus, which one of you is going to step up and volunteer to stand outside your local public restroom and demand that everyone entering (or even just those that don't look just exactly right in your opinion - a woman with a bit of moustache because of her menopausal hormone therapy or lack thereof, say, or a man who is all man but doesn't look macho enough for your tastes) show you their private parts to prove that they are going in the right door? Now, who is it exactly that's the pervert with a fixation on the private parts of others?
All that the current fuss (on both sides - those that passed the laws and those that are protesting them) is doing is to expose bigotry where it lives. Which is the real problem, not which restroom someone uses.
It would seem most of the solutions are very easy.
My parents had mentioned to me that when they visited France (many years ago), women and men often used the same communal bathrooms. So it's not unheard of.
Let's start with a simple premise. Most people don't like public restrooms anyway and will avoid them or use lockable singles in Starbucks when possible. Secondly, many larger public places also have "family" restrooms so the few who feel threatened could always use those...
But the larger solution is to build public restrooms with more privacy. Do away with urinals or have them very well protected (I've been in an Ikea where the urinals were actually in closed stalls). Have bathroom partitions be more closed - like in many places in Europe.
I understand the "great debate" but it really doesn't make sense in many ways. Do I want to stand at the sink next to a 450 lb smelly, dirty and slobbering member of my own sex? No - but I am required to do so in public restrooms.
Do I want my 6 y.o. daughter to use a stall next to a 350 woman who smells bad and makes lots of noises? No. But I can't make laws against it.
I predict that in the far future ALL restrooms will provide much more privacy. The great debate will be over.
BTW, I'm old enough to remember that big debate over using restrooms in places where homosexuals might live. That one blew over.....
A person of the same sex once held a knife to my son in a public restroom and took his $50.
I guess that's really the only "restroom scare" I've seen in my time.
So, yeah, even tho I care little and have no understanding of the issues involved, these laws are not being made to solve problems which exist. The fact that they attached stuff such as cities not being allowed to raise the min. wage? You couldn't make such things up! Who the heck would want to stop people from making more money?
Sure, it's been going on for years, meaning that all of the "Oh, no, awful things are going to start happening" is, to be blunt, absolutely paranoid bigoted nonsense. If it were going to start happening, it would already BE happening. That it's not is a pretty good indicator.
It's the usual slippery slope fallacy. And it's been going on forever.
Allowing lords to vote "What's next? Allowing all Christian male property owners to vote, even commoners?"
Of course, we no longer enfranchise people on the basis of religion or gender or ownership of property. (But that didn't stop one genius from once telling me that allowing women to vote is eventually going to lead to dogs voting)
Speaking of which, when emancipation was an issue... "What's next? Allowing freed blacks to serve on juries and vote? To intermarry?"
Or decriminalizing marijuana "What's next? Legalizing heroin and crack and meth?"
Again, some people just can't think straight. All this slippery-slope nonsense (there's a reason it's called the slippery slope fallacy) is irrational. It's like claiming "Oh, you want a speed limit, do you? What next? Banning driving altogether?". That's the - ahem, 'logic' - being proffered here. it simply does not follow that because we allow something, we must allow everything. Depending on who is serving up such a silly claim, it's either a failure to understand that humans are perfectly capable of rationally drawing dividing lines, or it's a red herring.
Either way, it's inane. And it's the mark of people who don't actually have a coherent argument to make about something that they just don't like because... well, just because. If humanity had followed this sort of logic throughout its history, we'd all still be living in caves and eating the vermin we pick off each other.
"What? Move out of these caves and build structures in which to live? What next? Next thing you know, you'll probably be saying we should stop eating all these delicious fleas and lice!"
I don't care who comes in and uses the facilities. Each one has a door with a lock.
I remember walking into the men's room by mistake once with another woman that followed me in. We came out of the stall and the look on the poor guys face was priceless.
Yikes. I apologized and we all laughed. I didn't see a thing and neither did he.
A lot of misunderstanding of what is trans-gendered is. They aren't " confused " they know which gender they are, it's just that gender doesn't match their physical body.
I don't discriminate against anyone, or at least do my best to not o so.
BUT: If they are" transgendered"...and still have the original internal or external "equipment" they were born with, they should use that sex's bathroom.
I am male, and really don't want to see a vagina on something that purports to be a guy SHOULD I accidentally see something/anything in the men's room!
SOme stores, like Target have "family" {and others for total privacy} restrooms, that is what ALL should do for public restrooms.
That is because I feel the same about a father bringing his 8 year old daughter into the men's room, who may not yet be trusted to use the ladies room alone or for safety's sake. I REALLY don't want her to have ANY chance of seeing my willy! I don't care if the father alone or other men see my willy as they have one, but I really don't want a young girl pointing at mine asking "daddy, where's mine?" or a female {or one who has not yet transferred sex organs} to see my willy, my preference. {if we are to have sex it's different, they are entitled to see it}, but not in the men's room!
I also feel, once they HAVE had the reassignment surgery, they should NOT be included in the "gay/lesbian/transgendered community as they usually claim to be "straight" in the new sex, and have no become that sex. They deserve no other sympathy or whatever, they are now fully changed to the opposite sex and should be considered as such, having all the rights that sex may enjoy. No more "special rules" or "special consideration" for them....
That "man" who was pregnant on Oprah some years ago and on all the tabloids was simply a woman who had not yet completed the transference to a man via genitals, and decided to have a baby with her FEMALE ORGANS STILL INTACT. THAT was NO MAN, it was a WOMAN on hormones to grow a beard! ANd she should have been using the ladies room, where a pregnancy would be appreciated, not looked at in disgust!
Easy solution - just have separate bathrooms for men, women and people who are confused about who the hell they really are.
Not a bad idea at all.. and I've seen it marked as 'family' bathroom.
And for the record, I've pretty much had it with the T's leeching themselves onto the LGB 'community'.. if indeed there really is such a thing.
I wanna trade them OUT and buy a vowel to support the hidden Aces!
I'm not sure if 'off' is an orientation but I am damn sure that trans-gender is NOT.
I don't discriminate against anyone, or at least do my best to not o so.
BUT: If they are" transgendered"...and still have the original internal or external "equipment" they were born with, they should use that sex's bathroom.
I am male, and really don't want to see a vagina on something that purports to be a guy SHOULD I accidentally see something/anything in the men's room!
SOme stores, like Target have "family" {and others for total privacy} restrooms, that is what ALL should do for public restrooms.
That is because I feel the same about a father bringing his 8 year old daughter into the men's room, who may not yet be trusted to use the ladies room alone or for safety's sake. I REALLY don't want her to have ANY chance of seeing my willy! I don't care if the father alone or other men see my willy as they have one, but I really don't want a young girl pointing at mine asking "daddy, where's mine?" or a female {or one who has not yet transferred sex organs} to see my willy, my preference. {if we are to have sex it's different, they are entitled to see it}, but not in the men's room!
I also feel, once they HAVE had the reassignment surgery, they should NOT be included in the "gay/lesbian/transgendered community as they usually claim to be "straight" in the new sex, and have no become that sex. They deserve no other sympathy or whatever, they are now fully changed to the opposite sex and should be considered as such, having all the rights that sex may enjoy. No more "special rules" or "special consideration" for them....
That "man" who was pregnant on Oprah some years ago and on all the tabloids was simply a woman who had not yet completed the transference to a man via genitals, and decided to have a baby with her FEMALE ORGANS STILL INTACT. THAT was NO MAN, it was a WOMAN on hormones to grow a beard! ANd she should have been using the ladies room, where a pregnancy would be appreciated, not looked at in disgust!
MY opinions.
You don't discriminate agains anyone, but you are advocating that now. By your own admission, you are wanting to force people who identify with a different gender to use a washroom, they feel is not the one they should be using. It's also impractical. A person is in transition, may have the parts of a male, but will look and dress female. The issue arise when that person walks into a male bathroom. The men in the washroom see a woman, not a man.
Highly unlikely, if not down right impossible. How on earth would you see someones private parts when that person is using a stall? You're not going to see someone with a vagina, standing at a urinal. EVEN if you did, are you in the habit of looking at the person equipment next to you?
As for not including them in the LGBT community, well that really isn't up to you or me, but that community.
However I don't see your logic. A transgendered person, is still a transgendered person after surgery and hormone therapy.
Not a bad idea at all.. and I've seen it marked as 'family' bathroom.
And for the record, I've pretty much had it with the T's leeching themselves onto the LGB 'community'.. if indeed there really is such a thing.
I wanna trade them OUT and buy a vowel to support the hidden Aces!
I'm not sure if 'off' is an orientation but I am damn sure that trans-gender is NOT.
Leeching? Trans people, have become part of the LGBT community, because that community accepts them, when the straight community did not.
It's not all roses for Trans even in the gay community either, but at least they are more accepted.
How are they leeching?
What do you mean " off " is an orientation? I don't understand what you mean.
AS far as the Debate section of this thread goes it seems that most of the responders do not care if a man uses the ladies room and vice versa. I guess that is OK but I still see problems where some pervert is going to get his kicks by spying on a woman or girl doing her business then when the cops are called he will claim he has a right to be in there because he identifies as a woman. The victim is left feeling violated and the pervert walks.
The bend over part of the debate is the constant attack on what is considered to be normal society in America. We have always separated men from women in bathrooms, locker rooms, changing rooms and any other place where one might catch an eye full of the other and cause embarrassment or shame. I suppose there will come a time when everything is coed including showers at the gym and at schools.
What is not so good is how we have minority groups that are actually changing the rules on the silent majority by simply making enough noise to be a nuisance. There are some basic human rights that should be forwarded to everyone, man or woman, straight, gay or miscellaneous but some things should be held sacred like public bathrooms.
I think it is ridiculous that North Carolina is trying to make a stand for decency and they are being roasted for it in the oven of public opinion.
If paypal has such a problem with NC that they pulled out from plans to build offices in that state why didn't they just put in a third bathroom? Does Bruce Springsteen have that many transvestite fans that he is required to make a stand against NC? I could see if it was Lady Gaga but The Boss?
How far will the silent majority be forced to bend over for the noisy minority before they snap?
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