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You mean biological, non-trans women. They are doing it, and are being allowed to do it, as an act of free will as opposed to a government mandate.
Because we the people are fed up with having an endless amount of change forced upon us to appease special interest groups.
If you're opposed to government mandates, why are you supporting a mandate that demands transgender people use a certain bathroom? Can't they use whatever bathroom they feel comfortable with out of "free will?" Of course not - because we all know how the far-right mind works. Government = bad, unless it's doing something about "those people."
As for having change "forced upon us," unless you're carefully monitoring the suspected original biological sex of everyone who's using the bathroom, allowing transgender people to use the restroom that matches their new gender is not "change." Seriously, do right-wingers spend their time worrying people aren't manly or womanly enough to use the men's or ladies' rooms? And wouldn't it be MORE jarring and having "change forced upon us" to have obviously female people in the men's room or obviously male people in the ladies room because the law requires it because they were born with the opposite sex?
Nope, there isn't a scrap of logic from the far-right on this topic.
All I can say is the times they are a changing.
It used to be that people didn't care about many things and they were not talked about but today we have people who are shouting and really rocking the boat which is unsettling for many.
I am sure that transgendered people have been using the appropriate bathroom they identify with ever since there has been transgendered people and they have been discreet about it. There is nothing wrong with that.
Maybe the real problem is an over reaching Government that is forcing issues like this onto traditional American values and it scares people? Once again the key word is "discreet" but that word is taking a back seat to "in your face"
With laws come loop holes and people who will take advantage of it. Call it human nature but it happens all the time.
If a law is made that allows anyone to use whatever bathroom they want there will be the other side that wants a law banning men from the ladies room.
Once again there is aright way and wrong way to approach the transgendered bathroom issue and the key word is discreetly.
We don't need any more laws but when the issue is pushed and pushed there needs to be rules put in place to give us all guidelines where common sense, manners and decorum used to work but alas those things are so lacking today.
There are two types of people...
Those that think people are born in the wrong bodies and those that thing being transgendered is a psychological issue.
Those that think it is a psychological issue aren't necessarily discriminating, they just feel that people with issues such as this need to be treated vs being accommodated. If we start accommodating all these people with different problems where will it end?
Those that feel people are actually born in the wrong bodies feel it is discrimination but again, where does it end? Would it be discrimination as I previously posted if someone felt they were an animal, had some surgery, and began peeing in public, etc? There isn't any difference between the two.
Do you want people who look like men using the women's room and vice versa, because that's what this law does.
and it's a small percentage, but it's a large state,. and in America we take care of small percentages so all can have freedom and pursue happiness.
Exactly. If a person with a vagina lives life appearing as a man (in terms of what society considers appropriate clothing, hair style, physique, etc for a man), and this person is forced by law to use the women's restroom, won't women get a bit freaked out seeing what they perceive to be a man in the restroom with them???
Sure, it's been going on for years, meaning that all of the "Oh, no, awful things are going to start happening" is, to be blunt, absolutely paranoid bigoted nonsense. If it were going to start happening, it would already BE happening. That it's not is a pretty good indicator.
Plus, which one of you is going to step up and volunteer to stand outside your local public restroom and demand that everyone entering (or even just those that don't look just exactly right in your opinion - a woman with a bit of moustache because of her menopausal hormone therapy or lack thereof, say, or a man who is all man but doesn't look macho enough for your tastes) show you their private parts to prove that they are going in the right door? Now, who is it exactly that's the pervert with a fixation on the private parts of others?
All that the current fuss (on both sides - those that passed the laws and those that are protesting them) is doing is to expose bigotry where it lives. Which is the real problem, not which restroom someone uses.
AS far as the Debate section of this thread goes it seems that most of the responders do not care if a man uses the ladies room and vice versa. I guess that is OK but I still see problems where some pervert is going to get his kicks by spying on a woman or girl doing her business then when the cops are called he will claim he has a right to be in there because he identifies as a woman. The victim is left feeling violated and the pervert walks.
The bend over part of the debate is the constant attack on what is considered to be normal society in America. We have always separated men from women in bathrooms, locker rooms, changing rooms and any other place where one might catch an eye full of the other and cause embarrassment or shame. I suppose there will come a time when everything is coed including showers at the gym and at schools.
What is not so good is how we have minority groups that are actually changing the rules on the silent majority by simply making enough noise to be a nuisance. There are some basic human rights that should be forwarded to everyone, man or woman, straight, gay or miscellaneous but some things should be held sacred like public bathrooms.
I think it is ridiculous that North Carolina is trying to make a stand for decency and they are being roasted for it in the oven of public opinion.
If paypal has such a problem with NC that they pulled out from plans to build offices in that state why didn't they just put in a third bathroom? Does Bruce Springsteen have that many transvestite fans that he is required to make a stand against NC? I could see if it was Lady Gaga but The Boss?
How far will the silent majority be forced to bend over for the noisy minority before they snap?
What stops anyone from doing that now? Absolutely nothing.
Men have placed CAMERAS in women's bathrooms, even their private bathrooms at home if they somehow have had access to a person's home, to spy on them. It already happens. People are already being violated in bathrooms. None of it is okay, but enough with the "well now we're going to have people invading other's space for bad and evil reasons!" because it already happens. What, are you afraid of the slim chance that it may happen some MORE?
I don't get this irrational and weird fear people have that suddenly, all these men will start walking into women's rooms just to be creepy. Like I said, what stops this from happening now? Is there a guard standing outside every bathroom door saying, "excuse me, you look like a man, you can't go in there!"? Are there cops easily accessible everywhere to run in and grab the offender to remove him or her from the wrong bathroom? No. Nothing stops people now from going into the "wrong" bathroom. These laws proposed only aim to make it OFFICIAL for transgenders to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, so they can't run into any issues or discriminations. AFAIK it's not illegal to use the "wrong" bathroom... and if it is, whoops, guess I've broken the law a few times. Sorry that I've used the men's room before when the women's line is ridiculously long... guess I'm some offender, too.
There are two types of people...
Those that think people are born in the wrong bodies and those that thing being transgendered is a psychological issue.
Those that think it is a psychological issue aren't necessarily discriminating, they just feel that people with issues such as this need to be treated vs being accommodated. If we start accommodating all these people with different problems where will it end?
Those that feel people are actually born in the wrong bodies feel it is discrimination but again, where does it end? Would it be discrimination as I previously posted if someone felt they were an animal, had some surgery, and began peeing in public, etc? There isn't any difference between the two.
Well that's a leap. There IS a difference between the two. A human who thinks they aren't human is not the same thing as gender identity.
It's sort of like saying a person who needs a heart transplant has the same medical needs as someone who cut their finger. Just because they are both medical, doesn't mean they are the same.
As for whether people are physically or psychologically are another gender than their bodies, who cares? If someone truly feels this, who are we to question it? It's not something that someone decides or voices lightly.
This question is sparked by the great hypocrisy of the month. It has to do with paypal and other big companies that are boycotting North Carolina over their plan to bar transgendered men from using the ladies room yet these big companies have no problem doing business and opening offices in countries that are terrible for gay people. If you are gay in the Phillipines you can get lashed and face up to 20 years in Prison yet paypal has corporate offices there? SO why are they making such a fuss about North Carolina?
It is obvious that in America we want to make everyone feel welcome, safe and our laws provide certain rights for everyone. Personally I don't want a guy who thinks he is a woman that day go into the ladies room with my wife, mother, sister or nieces. The ladies room is a place where women can let down their guard a bit, do their business in peace, check their look and go back out into the world.
I don't think most women would be too happy when they are applying some lipstick at the sinks and some 6'4 hairy guy in heels comes out of a stall.
Let's give our women some peace.
Now I think gays, lesbians transgendered and miscellaneous others should NOT be discriminated against in any way but come on. They make up a small percentage of the population yet the majority is being asked to bend over to their ways.
So paypal and other companies refuse to do business with North Carolina because of this bathroom silliness yet they continue to do business with countries that have horrible human rights violations against gay people.
Should the majority of folks stop supporting these companies to protest their stance in NC?
Why can't paypal put in a third bathroom for transgendered people in their offices?
Men would you be upset if a woman came in to use the mens room ?
Women would you be upset if a man came in to use the ladies room?
How long will this PC nonsense continue before the majority says enough is enough?
I'm a woman who has used a men's room, and I know many women who have. The fact of the matter is that women's restrooms are often wholly inadequate to the demand, and a toilet is a toilet. I've seen women's lines extend well outside the restroom at countless sporting events, while men just walk in and walk out. For myself, I'd rather use the men's then have an accident at such events. And no one has ever said anything when I've used the opposite gender's facilities.
Then, there's also the fact that there are ZERO recorded instances of transgender people committing sexual crimes in bathrooms, and at least THREE recorded instances of "family values" Republicans committing such crimes (John Hinson, Larry "Wide Stance" Craig, and Bob Allen) - and that doesn't count that creep Hastert, who committed disgusting acts on children in hotels and locker rooms, which is similar to a restroom in the sense of people's vulnerability.
Clearly based on the facts and relative likelihood of a crime to be committed, it makes more sense to worry about Republicans committing crimes in restrooms vs. transgender people... perhaps they should be banned from such places?
Exactly. If a person with a vagina lives life appearing as a man (in terms of what society considers appropriate clothing, hair style, physique, etc for a man), and this person is forced by law to use the women's restroom, won't women get a bit freaked out seeing what they perceive to be a man in the restroom with them???
And vice versa for a MtF.
How is this good for anyone???
The real reason these nuts want this law is to basically "out" the transgender people so a good old-fashion lynching can happen later. Violence against transgender people is staggeringly high compared to the general population because various sickos - many of them no doubt "religious" and "killing people the Bible tells us to kill - provided you don't read that part where Jesus tells us to love everyone" - feel a need to destroy what they don't understand.
By forcing transgender people to use the wrong restroom, it "outs" them and blows their cover, leading to "gee, wouldn't it be a shame if something happened to them later" types of outcomes. In short, the states that pass these laws are basically setting transgender people up for violence to be committed against them. It's really stopping just a hair short of organizing a lynch mob to kill somebody, and it's state sanctioned. Disgusting!
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