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Old 09-29-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,867,365 times
Reputation: 15839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Because the rich, who are hoarding at this point, pay too little if at all.
That is patently untrue. There is no data to show rich are hoarding. Just the opposite: the higher the wealth, the more is invested in the economy.

There is no data to show the rich "pay too little if at all." It just doesn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
I am under the poverty line and I pay taxes, they should have to pay them too, and in fair percentage.
They do, and they pay more than their fair share.
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:07 AM
 
2,479 posts, read 2,213,645 times
Reputation: 2277
Default Let's not complicate this

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
So for several years now we have talked about the 16, 18 and 20 trillion USD of debt that America has. We hear how we make cuts but yet despite cuts we see our debt increase year after year. There have been cuts but it's not enough to really make a dent. The biggest thing I see that our debt is a lot of talk of cutting taxes. In reality any tax cut leads to increasing debt. $2 of tax cuts for every $1 of budget cuts is still $1 of debt increased. I ask why can't we raise taxes if the national debt is such a problem for America?
Can the U.S. let interest rates raise and pay our debt obligations. No.

Can we eventually eliminate the debt. Yes.

How? Keep taxes as they are and cut, cut governmental fat.

Ever wonder how we have the Department of Education, and yet run our school systems on a state and local level? Same with the EPA, and department of commerce.

If we need watchdogs, lets eliminate them until we are debtless.
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,897,671 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermobile View Post
Can the U.S. let interest rates raise and pay our debt obligations. No.

Can we eventually eliminate the debt. Yes.

How? Keep taxes as they are and cut, cut governmental fat.

Ever wonder how we have the Department of Education, and yet run our school systems on a state and local level? Same with the EPA, and department of commerce.

If we need watchdogs, lets eliminate them until we are debtless.
No I don't, I live in a state the bottom five state for school performance and money for schools. I work at a decent school but the state wonders why it don't improve yet government wants to make cuts and remove common core with no real standard to replace. Many states also don't watchdog themselves. Think of how many states don't inspect amusement attractions despite having them vs those that do. If the states won't do it, the country has to do it.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:11 PM
 
11,025 posts, read 7,840,537 times
Reputation: 23702
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
No I don't, I live in a state the bottom five state for school performance and money for schools. I work at a decent school but the state wonders why it don't improve yet government wants to make cuts and remove common core with no real standard to replace. Many states also don't watchdog themselves. Think of how many states don't inspect amusement attractions despite having them vs those that do. If the states won't do it, the country has to do it.
I hope you work in the cafeteria, or we may have the answer.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Fort Benton, MT
910 posts, read 1,082,773 times
Reputation: 2730
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
I guess we have different definitions of "super rich" because the first company you cite is Tesla. Tesla has never made a profit and loses over $20,000 per car - super rich indeed!


"A business only pays taxes when it wants to?" And you're okay with Trump, and all like him I presume, not paying any taxes at all?


Somebody has gotten to you, hook, line and sinker. The tragedy is people like you are welcome to vote and all those career politicians on both sides of the aisle will tell you anything you want to hear, however preposterous, to get your vote.


I'm not going to call you a liar because, unfortunately for all of us, you believe you know what you're talking about. You haven't a clue.


I was talking about the founder of these companies. I guess you don't know who the founder of Tesla is. Well, let me introduce you to Mr. Elon Musk. As of 2016 his net worth is 11.7 billion dollars. You know, one of those EVIL, SUPER RICH PEOPLE WE MUST ALL HATE THAT DOESN'T PAY ENOUGH TAXES. I guess you thought that Tesla was founded by a crack head welfare recipient. You see, Mr. Musk doesn't have to live in the U.S. to do business here. In fact, he can base his corporation anywhere on this Planet. There are ton's of countries that pay less taxes than the US. You start raising his taxes, guess what, he leaves.


Yes I am fine with businesses not paying taxes, because they EMPLOY THE MIDDLE CLASS. Who in the heck do you think works at these companies. Without businesses, there wouldn't be any jobs. We wouldn't have a single car, train, aircraft, or ship without corporations. We wouldn't have had any medical advancements, or medicine. Most of the food on this planet is grown by corporate farms.


No one has gotten to me, I live in the real world. I'm from a blue collar family. My dad was a farmer, my mother in management. Both worked for corporations. It paid for my upbringing, my education.


There is no tragedy, the only tragedy is the people blaming big businesses and CEO's for their problems. Not realizing that we live in a world not defined by boarders, where people can freely choose where they live. Right now, in Europe, hundreds of millionaires are leaving their home countries and moving to Russia. Why?, Russia has a 13% income tax rate. The corporate rate in Russia is 20%. If I am a millionaire, why would I pay over 40% of my income in taxes to Europe or the U.S.


Russia is giving citizenship to every millionaire who comes. Why? Because unlike most of the people posting here, Russia knows that wealthy people drive the economy. They want the richest people in the world living within their borders. They want them buying their real estate, paying for services in their communities.


Expand your horizons.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:28 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,945,609 times
Reputation: 18151
It's not how much is paid. It's where the money GOES that matters.

How are the roads by you? The schools? The bridges? The social services? How much of the taxes paid by your community ends up in your community? Another community?

People are paying paying paying .... yet outwardly, nothing really changes. Why is that?

Saw a meme: The world is 40 trilllion dollars in debt ... who does Earth owe? JUPITER??
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Old 09-29-2016, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,867,365 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
People are paying paying paying .... yet outwardly, nothing really changes. Why is that?
Public sector union pension plans are horribly underfunded. All your money is going to the pension plans so they can continue giving public sector union retirees gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:23 PM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,018,697 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
They do, and they pay more than their fair share.
Determining what actually is the "fair share" of anyone in particular is a part of the problem. In light of the diminishing marginal utility of income, it appears clear to most tax policy people that progressive income taxes are appropriate. Even more so in light of the fact that payroll, excise, and state-and-local taxes have such a strong tendency to be regressive in their effects. As things stand and in ballpark terms, the bottom 20% by income lose about 15% of that income to taxes at all levels while the top 20% lose about 30% of their incomes to taxation. Too high? Too low? About right?
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:40 PM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,018,697 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistermobile View Post
Can we eventually eliminate the debt. Yes.
LOL! We last paid off the national debt in 1836, and the only reason for it was national pride behind a promise that we would eventually repay every penny of the money that we borrowed to finance the Revolutionary War. In the present day, neither we nor any other of the world's significant economies has any plans ever to pay off the national debt. We don't even appropriate funds to pay off the billions of dollars worth of debt that mature each month. We expect Treasury to issue new debt to cover it, a system that works quite well.

During the four years of the Clinton budget surpluses, the Bond Marketing Association voted to send people to the White House to point out that international capital markets were being distorted by shortages of US Treasury issues in the system. The world is not the simple place that many people imagine it to be.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:48 PM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,018,697 times
Reputation: 3812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Public sector union pension plans are horribly underfunded. All your money is going to the pension plans so they can continue giving public sector union retirees gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care.
Either that or all your money is being extorted and used to fund the multi-million dollar private sector golden parachute retirement and health care benefits that go to failed CEO's who ran sizable corporations straight into the ground.
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