Who Should Pay For Wilderness Rescues? (wages, illegal, drug, healthcare)
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I have mixed feelings on this......I do think that if people make poor decisions regarding hiking/being in the wilderness, they should have to pay for/face the consequences of their actions. But I'm also aware that sometimes things happen that one doesn't plan for.
I think it's a good topic, reed067, and I have thought about this many times. The closest hiking threat to where I live is Mt. Hood, and that mountain has it's share of unretrieved bodies. Many both inexperienced and experienced have perished in that mountain ~ it is a very unpredictable and quite under-estimated. These majestic mountains are open to all hikers to enjoy and partake of, and that is why we have the rescue teams. But it's hard to sympathize with the ones who stray and are ill-prepared and, in many cases, don't know what they're doing or don't have the sense to know when to turn back. They don't do their homework. These are very dangerous situations for the rescue workers as well.
These weren't hikers, but around 10 years ago or so a family with two small children decided to take a lone road off I-5 to the coast in winter, which was a BLM road cutting through a mountain. Unfortunately, the gate was not locked. However, at some point they encountered a line of boulders intended to discourage passers, and the driver moved the boulders and continued on. Unfortunately, this show of Darwinism was the beginning of the end. They ended up lost and could not turn back due to increasing snow, thus they were stuck for many days. The man left to find a small town on their map but he died from hypothermia. The wife and kids were rescued. This situation was not really the same as the point of this debate, as they were found by helicopter, but my point is that too many people don't consider the consequences of what may happen to them AND those that attempt to save them.
And I guess I don't have a real answer to the question about who pays. It's very easy to think that the rescued should pay for their mistakes; however, it would have to be handled as a case-by-case situation to determine how much they were at fault, and that could lead to a lot of red-tape.
Now, in August the fires that razed the Columbia Gorge were started by the some nitwit kids that insisted on setting off fireworks into a very dry ravine - despite being warned NOT to do it - and I think the cost of the containment, plus fines, should definitely fall on them. They burned down many buildings, caused raining ash clear out here at least miles away, making the hot polluted air dangerous to inhale, and definitely made Hell for numerous emergency response workers.
We live on the other side of the Cascades from the city of Seattle. Search and Rescue costs for our county is almost a million dollars a year. Hikers refuse to pay for the costs of their rescues, so the county recovers very little money.
County population is 75,000 and we just can't afford to provide search and rescue services for Seattle residents. So far the county has lost its helicopter due to higher costs.
The county north of us just has 10 deputy sheriffs for the largest county is Washington state. One fall there were 10 missing hikers at one time. I am not sure who I felt sorrier for...the county sheriff trying to deal with it or the families of the lost hikers who thought somebody was looking for their loved ones.
BTW...the issue is also a law enforcement issue. About 1/3 of our crimes are committed by western Washington residents and little more than 40% by illegals. If the county of origin paid, and the Federal government covered the cost of law enforcement for illegal crimes my taxes would go down dramatically!! I am, however, happy to cover the cost of homegrown scum and putting them in jail.
I've thought about this a lot over the years partly because I live and work in wild places that get a lot of visitation...by skilled prepared people and by morons. Of course the devil is in the details and there will be times when it isn't black or white. However, knowing a bit about how agency emergency planners think, I finally came down to a process. Some may already do something similar. When the event is over, the agency who has to tally up all the costs goes through a decision-making tree that lays out the facts:
1. Was the event an emergency or was the rescue more of a convenience for the victims (I'm tired and can't walk myself out)?
2. Did the folks involved take any precautions, preparations, demonstrate any personal responsibility?
3. Was pertinent information about hazards readily available through the land management agency responsible for the area and did the victims use it?
If answers to question 1 and 2 are no, and the answer to question 3 is yes, the victims get to reimburse the responders for their rescue.
If answers to all three questions are yes, then the responders did exactly what their positions were designed to do.
I remember hiking Mount Pisgah a couple years back and a woman ran past me with running shoes on. To had to that the trail was wet and doesn't tend to get a lot of sun on most parts of it. I remember looking at my wife and saying she's going to take a fall. About 20 mins later she had fallen and broke her ankle.
She had to be lifted out she only had another 4 miles or so to the trailhead. Most hikers use common sense and tend to know their limits for the most part. Then you get those who think they are immune to a fall or getting lost, etc. Personal responsibility should come in to play sadly it doesn't. I know we use tax money to pay for these things ASR, etc. Should we treat these people like a child and scold them? Personal responsibility partly is making sure they know what they are getting into and out to get out of trouble.
I'm not sure what the answer is or how we could prove or tell that they were in over their heads.
Your not going to collect much money if any from hikers. My county did BILL out-of-county residents for search and rescue service and nobody paid.
I am fine with government rescuing people.
To me it is more of a question of WHICH government pays for search and rescue. Outside of National Park Service managed lands, it is the county government that is REQUIRED to provide search and rescue services on Federal land.
Charge the county of origin for rescuing their citizens.
sure the county or gov't owned land can pay. It's what drives in tourism for them.....
Don't think for one second that such areas aren't being managed and profited from.
I've no qualms in investing in saving a life in peril. Sometimes circumstances of nature create the challenge....and with minimal preparation a person can be at the mercy of nature....
Who should pay - the idiot who overshot their abilities to climb or what ever. Take them to court if they don't pay. Garnish their wages.
My hobbies don't cost the tax payers a dime.
I'd rather pay for healthcare for others than these very expensive rescues because someone didn't apply common sense. I knew a gal whose husband died trying to rescue someone who was where they shouldn't be. That clown should have to support her the rest of her life. But no, we that taxpayers do.
I am reminded a bit of back when I was principal, and on occasion we would have a kid go into a bad asthma attack or react badly to a bee sting. We'd call 911 for an ambulance, and often an ambulance and at least one (if not two) firetrucks would arrive. Like...don't you guys have radios? So you have overkill.
We all pay taxes. And we have already paid for some of these services. Why should we pay again if we use them? On the other hand, some people do stupid things...repeatedly.
I guess if it's a national park hike or on some other government land where you have to register to take a hike, there ought to be a fee that -- when added up for many hikers -- would pay all or part of the rescue service.
I also thought of the other night when, for the first time, I called 911 due to heart/blood pressure. They came, did to EKGs on the spot, and determined that I was okay, but needed to see my doctor the following day. No charge. And I guess the logic was that they're in the EMT vehicle to begin with, and as long as they don't administer a drug or overt treatment, it has cost the county nothing.
I just don't think it's an easy answer.
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