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Allow teachers to be armed to defend the classroom and not be helpless victims.
You asked me:
"So, a shooter walks in a classroom and starts shooting? What is your plan to stop him?"
I asked what YOUR plan was. Frankly you think the people that do this do not know what the plans to stop them will be. Everything to combat this is discussed ad nauseam, recorded, broadcast, rehashed, written about and in all of that people come up with good counters.
So you are sitting in your school and Jack and Jill know who has a gun and that is who they start the shooting with, or they chain and padlock the exits and light the place on fire and shoot at those that try to exit. Or they fly a drone into you with a quarter pound of C4. There are no simple solutions, the problem will evolve with the counters.
The thing that will be interesting is when you get "good guys with guns" killing each other because of a mistake or out of fear.
You watch too many old westerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
So, sandy Brooke, Florida and other mass shootings are fantasies? Violent crimes are fantasies? The fantasy here is your crime free Utopia.
School shootings happen less often than the 90's. That does not mean that they do not happen but even with the shootings you mention there is no reason to believe an armed teacher or teachers would have lessened the casualties at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Shooters typically go room to room. An armed teacher can be prepared once they hear shots fired. There are no guarantees a teacher won’t be surprised, but once shots are fired, armed teachers can get the drop on the shooter. Having classrooms be helpless is ridiculous.
And in this chaos the "good guys with the guns" may actually kill more children than one who starts it.
So, sandy Brooke, Florida and other mass shootings are fantasies? Violent crimes are fantasies? The fantasy here is your crime free Utopia.
No, the fantasy is your idea that teachers can defend their students when someone with a semi-auto gets the drop on them, and the fantasy is that teachers can 'mentally prepare' to go toe to toe with an active shooter when in reality few cops would do what you are suggesting
My recommendation is that you go to a range where you can rent a semi-automatic rifle with a high cap magazine and do some target practice with it, maybe that's what it will take for you to understand how powerful those weapons are and how ludicrous it is to suggest that a teacher could even unholster a weapon before they were killed. Not to mention that the teachers gun could readily be taken from them by a student and used not only against the teacher, but other students.
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is Second Home - Rustbelt is Home Base
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
No, the fantasy is your idea that teachers can defend their students when someone with a semi-auto gets the drop on them, and the fantasy is that teachers can 'mentally prepare' to go toe to toe with an active shooter when in reality few cops would do what you are suggesting
My recommendation is that you go to a range where you can rent a semi-automatic rifle with a high cap magazine and do some target practice with it, maybe that's what it will take for you to understand how powerful those weapons are and how ludicrous it is to suggest that a teacher could even unholster a weapon before they were killed. Not to mention that the teachers gun could readily be taken from them by a student and used not only against the teacher, but other students.
Yaknow, if **** was Shinola, you wouldn't have to buy shoe polish! People always like to debate the ifs, ands and buts.
The only given is this. If a teacher has no gun they can only stare down the barrel of an active shooter unarmed and are subject to certain death and the killing of their children.
Regular old people defend themselves on daily basis with their gun...
No one told the it could not be done. Well maybe the dems tried. They will tell them don't own a gun, it will be taken away from you and used in you! Some people are fighters, some are not and just give up.
Myself, I'd be looking to shoot the killer in the back if at all possible. I'd want to stay alive and I want the shooter dead.
Yaknow, if **** was Shinola, you wouldn't have to buy shoe polish! People always like to debate the ifs, ands and buts. .
and you counter my argument with if ands and buts
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackercruster
The only given is this. If a teacher has no gun they can only stare down the barrel of an active shooter unarmed and are subject to certain death and the killing of their children.
And if the school employee is armed they have less of a chance of killing an active shooter with a semi-auto rifle who gets the drop on them than they do of being struck by lightning. Remember, Trump said that teachers guns would be concealed...where, in the lunch ladies bra? or are the teachers going to carry an AR in a rifle sling while they teach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackercruster
Regular old people defend themselves on daily basis with their gun...
NRA armed citizen:
Consider your source, they are in the business of generating gun sales.
"In 2015 Hemenway and his colleagues studied five years' worth of NCVS data and concluded that guns are used for self-defense in less than 1 percent of all crimes that occur in the presence of a victim. They also found that self-defense gun use is about as effective as other defensive maneuvers, such as calling for help. “It's not as if you look at the data, and it says people who defend themselves with a gun are much less likely to be injured,” says Philip Cook, an economist at Duke University, who has been studying guns since the 1970s." https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/ (you might want to read the entire article, it's very interesting
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackercruster
Myself, I'd be looking to shoot the killer in the back if at all possible. I'd want to stay alive and I want the shooter dead.
lol do you really think a kid with an AR-15 is going to burst into the classroom and agree to a time out so you can get behind them?
The only given is this. If a teacher has no gun they can only stare down the barrel of an active shooter unarmed and are subject to certain death and the killing of their children.
One teacher in Florida locked the door and blocked the window, nobody in that room was harmed.
But if you think pistols are as good as assault rifles why are soldiers worldwide humping a MBR, in most cases without a pistol, instead of a much lighter, cheaper and easier to carry pistol?
No, the fantasy is your idea that teachers can defend their students when someone with a semi-auto gets the drop on them, and the fantasy is that teachers can 'mentally prepare' to go toe to toe with an active shooter when in reality few cops would do what you are suggesting
My recommendation is that you go to a range where you can rent a semi-automatic rifle with a high cap magazine and do some target practice with it, maybe that's what it will take for you to understand how powerful those weapons are and how ludicrous it is to suggest that a teacher could even unholster a weapon before they were killed. Not to mention that the teachers gun could readily be taken from them by a student and used not only against the teacher, but other students.
I worked at a range until just a few months ago and we saw all types in there. Do not underestimate the skills that a civilian can develop. It's only training. If there are teachers that are willing to become trained, they should be given the choice. A fighting chance is better than using your body as a shield. We host USPSA style matches every week. Most of those shooters are civilian from all walks of life. I wouldn't want to challenge them.
We also have tons of law enforcement that frequent that range. Those folks in uniform were civilians until they received training.....but weapons training is only a small part of what they must learn. Believe me a uniform is no guarantee of being an expert marksman or firearm tactician by a long shot.
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