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Oddly, I feel worse about my body self-image with clothes on. I have far from a perfect body. I'm of an age where gravity has made its statement, plus I sport that lovely little belly drape over the C-section scar. Most clothing doesn't fit perfectly. I'm always critical of myself when looking in a mirror to see how I look after getting dressed, but I don't feel that way disrobed. My cat doesn't seem to mind. Not sure about the neighborhood kids, though, so I tend to stay away from the front windows if I'm walking around the house naked.
It is like telling kids there is no physical Santa Clause. Just giving too much away and taking away the mystery and magic of childhood.
You know what is very un-sexy? Imagining my male partner as a little boy in shorts and suspenders, rubbing his hands together and going, "Oh, boy! A naked GIRL!"
If nudity is mysterious and magical to a guy, I cannot imagine he will know what to do to please me. No. Thanks.
On that note, I saw a video on Facebook today where a few men were put in front of a detailed pair of diagrams, internal and external, of the female reproductive organs, and given a set of magnets to label what the various parts were. I think one, out of the lot, managed to figure it out. Granted, this video was clickbait created by Cosmo, so questionable to begin with, sure. But if that's how clueless a guy is, I feel very sorry for any woman who finds herself in bed with him. If you don't even know what the bits are called, how on earth would you know how they work? One of the guys was actually confused because he thought that only men had urethras.
Besides. People growing up these days don't have any mystery or magic attached to the concept of nudity, what with internet porn the way it is. It's just that guys don't like the idea of a woman's naked body existing for any other reason than sexual titillation. Guess there's something so very disappointing and unacceptable about a woman wanting to just exist comfortably in her own skin, takes all the fun out of it, huh?
Reminds me of how when I was married I started changing in the bathroom so my ex wouldn't accuse me of "parading around the bedroom naked" while he leered at me. Made me feel disgusting and disgusted, full of self-loathing, and downright asexual. Because he made it ~like that~. Much prefer a man who can appreciate my body without acting stupid about it. He, by the by, would argue against public nudity too, and has in fact told me that if women are legally allowed to go topless, there will be "tons of rape." What a guy.
If you don't even know what the bits are called, how on earth would you know how they work?
Excellent post, but I am going to quibble ever-so-slightly with this one sentence before someone else comes along and blows it out of proportion. I'm sure you already know this, but - just for the record - academic knowledge does not always translate into practical knowledge, or vice versa. A guy who knows the names of the parts could still be a crappy lover, and a guy who doesn't know the names of any parts could turn out (on the basis of good intuitions, emotional intelligence, lots of practical experience, etc.) to be a very gifted lover. I don't think you really meant to imply otherwise, but I suspect that some people are likely to read it that way. But I should also add - which I suspect was really the point you were making - that guys really need to comprehend what a clitoris is, and what to do with it.
But your overall point is very well-taken. The "sex is sinful/shameful" and "nudity is sinful/shameful" worldview does correlate with a type of basic fear and ignorance that translates into a pitiful sea of people who go though an unnecessarily long, emotionally painful, and sometimes downright destructive "learning curve" in their pursuit of love. And most average sorts of porn don't help with this - if anything, most porn just adds elements that just make everything worse. (Technically, this doesn't have to be the case but, realistically, there are relatively few exceptions to the rule.) Obviously, a simple loosening of nudity laws, in itself, won't help much with this problem, but insofar as it might contribute, ever so slightly, to a weakening of the sex/nudity is sinful/shameful mindset, it could help a little bit. What we really need is a full frontal attack (so to speak) on the whole mindset itself. But that's another discussion for another time.
All that really matters for this thread is that keeping the naked human body a mystery for kids is not helpful and it does not "protect their innocence" or take away any "magic". If anything, keeping this "mystery" intact just sets children up for the "nudity is sinful/shameful/dirty" mindset that ultimately turns something naturally harmless into an on-going source of social stress and an excuse for mostly religion-rooted government intrusions on individual liberty.
America's whole "violence is fine but sexuality is terrifying" mentality...yuck. A city where some friends live just cracked down and banned a burlesque troupe. Bet they'd have no problem with something like boxing or professional wrestling or MMA or whatever. Hell, let's take the kids. A bare female nipple might scar little Johnny for life, but I'm sure he can handle seeing some dudes beat each other bloody. This country is insane.
Yes. Well said. It bothers me that, most of the time, nudity is somehow associated with violence and graphic gore. I love Game of Thrones, but I will use it as an example of what bothers me. It represents a trend in a subset of entertainment that I partially appreciate, and partially despise. How often do you see a mainstream, big-budget movie or TV series in which there is graphic nudity, but little or no gory violence? It seems like you can only have full frontal nudity in a context wherein graphic sex and graphic gory violence are just around the corner. In the particular case of Game of Thrones, the combination makes some sense in light of the setting and storyline, but my point is that it seems like it is specifically the graphic violence that somehow "gives permission" for the blatant nudity. This necessity of constantly combining full nudity with graphic sex - and, worse yet, graphic gory violence - is just a wildly stupid cultural mistake - a presentation of (and continuous reinforcement of) culture-level "mental illness" on open display.
Last edited by Gaylenwoof; 05-17-2018 at 11:05 AM..
But we should try to always keep in mind a distinction between what we would personally like and/or what we would personal do ourselves, on the one hand, and what we think should be illegal. Should our own personal preferences be imposed on others just because we can (if we are a majority), or should the passing of laws require some rational arguments and verifiable evidence of some actual harm to the public health? In America, at least, the default ought to be in favor or individual liberty and diversity but, ironically, America is the most prudishly determined to restrict this particular sort of individual liberty.
I wouldn't 'impose my own personal preferences on others,' nor did I suggest public nudity should be illegal. I just said that many of the naked peeps in VT are not very attractive. I'm all for letting it all hang out (and they do!) and I am NO prude.
But we should try to always keep in mind a distinction between what we would personally like and/or what we would personal do ourselves, on the one hand, and what we think should be illegal. Should our own personal preferences be imposed on others just because we can (if we are a majority), or should the passing of laws require some rational arguments and verifiable evidence of some actual harm to the public health? In America, at least, the default ought to be in favor or individual liberty and diversity but, ironically, America is the most prudishly determined to restrict this particular sort of individual liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol
Yeah
But who cares?
Someone choosing to go nude isn't about you. It's about them
If I have to look at or interact with unattractive naked peeps, and I am uncomfortable, it IS about me.
Really how many of us live in a climate that would support us being nude all the time? Even here in Florida we get some cooler days where being undressed would not be comfortable. The only place I can see public nudity being okay is a nude beach or resort. But imagine sitting on a beach chair that has just been vacated by another naked person. Does staff go around sanitizing all day long?
Anyway my sister and I were on the beach at Sanibel a few years back. Two German tourists come and sat next to us and proceed to remove their street clothes and put on their bathing suits right there. Now they passed a changing room on the way to the sand but to them, it was no big deal.
We honeymooned in Tahiti. The French are the same way. I was proud of them. Came right out, set up their towels and took all their clothes off. No matter their size or shape. Even the older gentlemen wearing thongs were kinda cute. They can pull it off. They are very natural about it.
I reiterate that if you actually spend enough time around a variety of naked people, you get over that real fast. I might not find every single body to my intense interest or taste, but I no longer find any body distasteful. I see beauty in all forms. And even though I'm not bad looking with my clothes off, like most women I have my criticisms and body image issues, and I'm more apt to notice my imperfections than most other people are, but being in a safe environment where people are naked, and being naked there sometimes myself, has done WONDERS for my own body-image insecurities. No, it doesn't make me feel like hot stuff, but it makes me feel ok with myself at the same time as I'm feeling more ok with other people.
In fact, I feel better being in that situation, than I would at some event where modelesque perfect people were strutting around in skimpy swimsuits, which frankly are barely different from being totally nude anyways. It feels far healthier seeing beauty in all shapes, colors, and stages of life.
I leave the events at the club feeling spiritually rejuvenated and more in touch with the human experience.
But the other night I watched "The Wolf of Wall Street" with my boyfriend, and felt utterly icky afterwards.
I think we are exposed to far too much nastiness that is deemed socially ok and nowhere near enough basic human natural goodness. America's whole "violence is fine but sexuality is terrifying" mentality...yuck. A city where some friends live just cracked down and banned a burlesque troupe. Bet they'd have no problem with something like boxing or professional wrestling or MMA or whatever. Hell, let's take the kids. A bare female nipple might scar little Johnny for life, but I'm sure he can handle seeing some dudes beat each other bloody. This country is insane.
You may be right; if I spent more time around a lot of naked people I might find it more natural. Since most of us generally wear clothing, I just have not had the opportunity to do that. (was this thread about nudist clubs?) I agree with you that some scantily clad folks may as well be naked, but I find those situations intentionally sexually provocative. I lived in CA and it was in your face almost all the time. It sounds like it's a good thing for you because where you go is a good environment.
You may be right; if I spent more time around a lot of naked people I might find it more natural. Since most of us generally wear clothing, I just have not had the opportunity to do that. (was this thread about nudist clubs?) I agree with you that some scantily clad folks may as well be naked, but I find those situations intentionally sexually provocative. I lived in CA and it was in your face almost all the time. It sounds like it's a good thing for you because where you go is a good environment.
I would not call it a nudist club, but it's a private club where they host BDSM and swinger parties. I'm not into the swinger end of it, but the other...yes. Either way, nudity is not required by any means but it's typical. Before I started going, I thought that being around naked people, and especially being naked around other people, would be this whole big deal, like highly sexually charged and even anxious. Nope. The "So what, no one really cares" vibe is pretty strong. I love how various people can watch activities and see bodies they find appealing, but not be disrespectful or weird about it, at all. And when the clothes go back on and we're all hanging around socially in the other room, we're a bunch of friends, there's no "I just saw you naked hee hee" vibe to any of it. I would say that the feeling from the voyeurs is rather like if a person with an eye for nice aesthetics were admiring a tiger at the zoo or a beautiful waterfall.
But this is, I think, largely a factor of social pressure. So many people are worried about coming off as "creepy" that, especially when they are new, they work really hard to be respectful. And of course we have orientation and rules and all. Outside society among the hoi polloi is most certainly not ready for such things, and I wouldn't expect it. I'm just saying that it's made me feel a lot more mentally and emotionally healthy since I started going, in a number of ways, and a decrease in hangups about my body is one of the more significant. And when we see some 70 year old running around like naked Mr. Magoo, we don't react like, "Ew! No one wants to see that!" We react with grins like, "Hey looks like he's having fun! Go go Grandpa lol!"
Anyhow though, as I've said, when it comes to the matter of overall social public nudity, I figure if we can evolve from a point where women's shoulders and ankles and such in certain American ethic groups in days gone by, were considered scandalous and sexually exciting to see, then we can probably get to a point where women can be topless and it's not a problem. That's the drum I'm bangin'. I don't need full public nudity to be anything like the norm, just equality for toplessness, either no one has to wear a shirt or everyone does.
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They can pull it off. They are very natural about it.
