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Old 07-15-2019, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
673 posts, read 3,096,457 times
Reputation: 511

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The countries that may nuclear deterrent the most are likely small, less military capable ones. That is only they can guarantee the sovereignty of their territory. Otherwise, some big power can easily undermine them with little complaints from the rest of the world.

Ukraine is a perfect example of a country that gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange from a written guarantee from Russia and the USA. Ukraine held 1/3 of USSR Nukes when the USSR broke up. Ukraine basically was naive enough to give them all up for guarantee of its territorial integrity in 1994.

See Wikipedia for details and also another wiki page on the treaty.

Fast forward, 20 years, Russia takes over Crimea from Ukraine. Russia had signed that treaty and other signers only protested. In fact, Russia has been trying to force Ukraine to become its puppet state and take more of its territory. Perfect example, why a treaty doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile, if Ukraine kept the Nukes and ICBM, Russia would have a real threat. Ukraine could have devasted Russian military bases. As a last resort, they could against Russian Cities.

With a nuclear deterrent, the fate of less powerful countries rests with the world's big powers. For example, almost all East Asian countries are relying on the US to protect them from China. Meanwhile, as another thread here demonstrate, there is military deterrent keeping US from annexing Mexico and the rest of Latin America. I don't think any other country will get dragged into saving another country if there is another large power doing the bullying.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:22 AM
 
9,391 posts, read 7,026,444 times
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If everyone has a nuclear deterrent the more likely someone will use it and end us all.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
1,408 posts, read 806,409 times
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Counterpoint: See North Korea. Nukes can also keep loonies like the short fat guy in power.
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:10 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,927 posts, read 6,631,608 times
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I did hear a rumor that the Ukraine was looking into re-acquiring nuclear weapons. Having Putin as a neighbor provides a strong incentive.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:02 PM
 
2,176 posts, read 1,335,249 times
Reputation: 5574
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
The countries that may nuclear deterrent the most are likely small, less military capable ones. That is only they can guarantee the sovereignty of their territory. Otherwise, some big power can easily undermine them with little complaints from the rest of the world.

Ukraine is a perfect example of a country that gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange from a written guarantee from Russia and the USA. Ukraine held 1/3 of USSR Nukes when the USSR broke up. Ukraine basically was naive enough to give them all up for guarantee of its territorial integrity in 1994.

See Wikipedia for details and also another wiki page on the treaty.

Fast forward, 20 years, Russia takes over Crimea from Ukraine. Russia had signed that treaty and other signers only protested. In fact, Russia has been trying to force Ukraine to become its puppet state and take more of its territory. Perfect example, why a treaty doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile, if Ukraine kept the Nukes and ICBM, Russia would have a real threat. Ukraine could have devasted Russian military bases. As a last resort, they could against Russian Cities.

With a nuclear deterrent, the fate of less powerful countries rests with the world's big powers. For example, almost all East Asian countries are relying on the US to protect them from China. Meanwhile, as another thread here demonstrate, there is military deterrent keeping US from annexing Mexico and the rest of Latin America. I don't think any other country will get dragged into saving another country if there is another large power doing the bullying.
You realize, that Regan promised to Gorbachev non- expansion of NATO in Eastern Europe as a condition of the removal of that wall and an end to the “ Cold War”?
Why it did not happened? Russia was an idiot to believe US.

Why are you surprised then that Russia has to take actions?

The borders of Eastern European countries supposed to stay the same according to those agreements from the 80-90th
Who bombed Serbia and took up its territory and established an independent Kosovo? (which btw, is a drug transit capital of the world)
There are American troops and bases not only in Eastern Europe now, but on the territory of former Soviet Union
How would you feel if Russia has a military base, contingent in Canada and Mexico? And in Cuba?
You are right though, that nuclear deterrent could help small countries:North Korea has it- still independent.
Iraq- not so much!
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:20 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 611,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
Russia takes over Crimea from Ukraine.
In Crimea, Ukraine military was given a choice - to join Russia or return to Ukraine. Only 3991 of 13468 Ukraine troops returned to Ukraine. Most others (9477) decided to join Russia. Same applies to USS (secret service): only 217 of 1619 went back to Ukraine, the rest (1402) joined Russia. In referendum (on Mar 16, 2014) 97,32% voted to join Russia.

Numbers tell us, that it's not "Russia took Crimea". It's "Crimea ran away from Ukraine".

So, what you were saying about nukes?
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:38 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 611,477 times
Reputation: 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
You realize, that Regan promised to Gorbachev non- expansion of NATO in Eastern Europe as a condition of the removal of that wall and an end to the “ Cold War”?
Why it did not happened? Russia was an idiot to believe US.
Actually, Russia trusted US completely up to the moment of bombing of Yugoslavia. That's when trust was destroyed.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,735 posts, read 18,402,447 times
Reputation: 34626
Interestingly, I think there is a strong argument to be made that Russia, as the internationally recognized successor state to the Soviet Union, owned all of the USSR's nukes, no matter where they were stationed.

In any event, I do think that it is clear that having nuclear weapons has some deterrent effect. The extent of this isn't always clear, though, as many countries with nukes will still resort to conventional arms hostilities (think India/Pakistan and India/China in the years since they acquired nukes). Now, one can argue that nukes prevented such conventional hostilities from spiraling out of control, and I'd tend to agree. But I'm not 100% sure about that. Many of these hostilities were, of course, small and I doubt would have been blown out of proportion anyway.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:58 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,623,520 times
Reputation: 11136
The missile sites and cruise missiles were dismantled by the US, but the nuclear warheads were transferred to Russia.

A breakup of the country does not necessarily result in an escalation to nuclear strikes. We could've had a nuclear exchange long ago between Pakistan and India.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,314 posts, read 29,176,318 times
Reputation: 32692
I've never understood why a select number of countries can have them, and others not! It doesn't seem fair.
Just think if Vietnam had had them in the late 60's! If Saudi Arabia is allowed to have them, which seem probable, then Iraq, Iran, Yemen should have them as well.
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