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Old 10-13-2019, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,839 posts, read 4,448,216 times
Reputation: 6120

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I think yes, but not for the reasons most of you will probably come up with.
It's got nothing to do with whether a republican or democrat is in the white house
It's not because of racism
It's not because of the inequality of wealth
It's not because of sexism.


I would submit to you that the reason that the United States will cease to be a world power of note in any category is because, we were too successful. We won the first and second world wars, we won the cold war. We converted just about every country that matters to our way of thinking and now it's going to haunt us all.


Let me back track. The reason that the United States was initially a successful country was simple.
From the end of the Civil War till the present day, there has not been a single military invasion of the continental United States (ignore Pearl Harbor). This peace allowed the country to grow and develop without the damaging effects of war (destroyed infrastructure, death, etc).


Meanwhile, Europe was engaged in ruinous war after ruinous war all through out the same time period. The skyrocketing expense of war pretty much ruined the British, French and Spanish Empires. The British were so broke that they had to beg the US to get involved in both the first and second world wars, otherwise they would be speaking German in London today.


China and Japan had banned interaction with the outside world for centuries, with little interest in trade or anything else. Eventually China would fall under the spell of communism. India while not communist, definitely trended closer to that than American capitalism for decades.


Russia and Eastern Europe also fell under communism.


All this meant that the US had practically no competition in terms of trade and manufacturing. This allowed the US to finance the incredible lifestyle which we now call 'the American Dream'.


Fast forward to today. Europe no longer wars with itself. China has now been persuaded of the advantages of capitalism, so has India.


The problem with capitalism is that it has not patriotism. Being American is not enough to win a competitive edge in the market place. China and India can produce goods far more cheaply than the US. Thus China is winning the battle on the economic front, and will continue to do so until it has completely dwarfed the United States economy and they don't need us for anything.


I read a book on the Chinese and it was truly eye opening. They are committed to skipping most of the evolutionary journey from backwater to economic super power, with western companies unknowing cooperation. Here is a typical example;


American company, desperate to break into the Chinese market, goes into a joint venture partnership with the Chinese.
As part of the deal, the Chinese insist that the American company transfer their technology to the joint venture.
The Chinese then take that know how and start a new company, 100 per cent Chinese.
This new company then competes with the American joint venture and it is destroyed.
Meanwhile, the Chinese now possess the American technology and is competing everywhere.
Wash, rinse, repeat. (Also applies to European and Japanese companies too).


There are so many Chinese companies in all the technological markets that didn't exist even 30 years ago. Huawei, so many of them.
This is a damning indictment of American capitalist thinking that our companies were so desperate for the almighty dollar that they would trade their proverbial birth right for a few Chinese bucks. This is now their undoing.
China's goal is to become dominant in every sphere. Once that is done, America becomes irrelevant. They already own trillions of our debt. They have us by the proverbial already.
And that's before getting to issues like outsourcing, automation, etc.
Sadly I don't know what can be done to counteract this.
The irony is that had we allowed these countries to continue on paths they had already embarked on, America would be in a better place today.
But this is why I believe that the next 100-200 years will become the Chinese and Indian centuries. America will follow the path of Britain and France, once super powers that now are basically irrelevant in the big scheme of things.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:21 PM
 
4,985 posts, read 3,971,944 times
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"Will America decline into a second or third world power?"
well, yes.
eventually.
the WORLD might be
a Third-World power
when the UFO aliens
arrive and take over.

after we are long gone.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,839 posts, read 4,448,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeydance View Post
"Will America decline into a second or third world power?"
well, yes.
eventually.
the WORLD might be
a Third-World power
when the UFO aliens
arrive and take over.

after we are long gone.
you joke about it but I think this is a serious issue. I do think you are right on one thing; it will take a while. Probably after we are both gone. But I think the wheel is already set in motion. The only thing that could possibly save America would be China and India imploding, having their own civil wars and descending into anarchy. Then we would still be king of the hill. But barring that...I would suggest you and your family start learning Chinese.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,514 posts, read 4,759,184 times
Reputation: 8431
I agree with the outcome, but for other reasons. Our expansion in the thick of the last century means we are saddled with degrading and now expensive infrastructure. Other places leapfrog is because they are investing in infrastructure like mad, and go for the newest stuff.

At the same time, we seem bent on using the military as leverage in a time when that’s antiquated. Yes, we have a lot of soft power, but we don’t have that edge we used to in terms of being a breakthrough factory. I think we’re less driven than before, but I also think we were primed to snag the low-hanging fruit in the 20th century, and now that’s gone. Technical pursuits are just harder to win today.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:28 PM
509
 
6,321 posts, read 7,057,631 times
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The US has some incredible advantages of transportation, geography, and climate.

But yes, anybody can become a second or third world country. It really relates to the government and corruption. That is really the difference between a first world country and a third world country.

Starting in the 1990's we have made some really awful decisions in this country.

The jury is still out on where we are headed, but it doesn't look good at this point in time.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,839 posts, read 4,448,216 times
Reputation: 6120
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
The US has some incredible advantages of transportation, geography, and climate.

But yes, anybody can become a second or third world country. It really relates to the government and corruption. That is really the difference between a first world country and a third world country.

Starting in the 1990's we have made some really awful decisions in this country.

The jury is still out on where we are headed, but it doesn't look good at this point in time.
I'm not sure that any of that matters really.
The simple fact is that America was able to prosper because we believed in the tenets of capitalism; allowing the people to chase their dreams in peace and with liberty.
That same tenet is now being followed by the Chinese (not entirely of course, still some non democratic elements to that country).
1.5 billion people following capitalism will eventually out grow 350 million people following the same ideas.


For decades, the Chinese had hamstrung themselves with communism which allowed the smaller United States to stay ahead, but no longer. Capitalism dictates that the Chinese will eventually overtake us, regardless of whatever we may try internally, good or bad.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:08 PM
 
4,513 posts, read 5,060,475 times
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The answer is YES, simply because of diversity !
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,713,302 times
Reputation: 19315
This thread is a Rorschach test, whereupon posters will see the looming cause of the decline of the U.S. as their pet obsessions.

To wit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodpete View Post
The answer is YES, simply because of diversity !
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:31 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,471,556 times
Reputation: 55564
Not if we stop doormatting
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:38 PM
509
 
6,321 posts, read 7,057,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I'm not sure that any of that matters really.
The simple fact is that America was able to prosper because we believed in the tenets of capitalism; allowing the people to chase their dreams in peace and with liberty.
That same tenet is now being followed by the Chinese (not entirely of course, still some non democratic elements to that country).
1.5 billion people following capitalism will eventually out grow 350 million people following the same ideas.


For decades, the Chinese had hamstrung themselves with communism which allowed the smaller United States to stay ahead, but no longer. Capitalism dictates that the Chinese will eventually overtake us, regardless of whatever we may try internally, good or bad.
Capitalism is great....doesn't work well with corrupt governments. It really doesn't work well with stagnant societies. We are on the verge, of being a stagnant society.

I don't agree much with Elizabeth Warren, but breaking up Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, and others might be a real good idea.

China, might or might not, be the next world power. A corrupt society will always be working below its potential. Interesting how the Chinese are using technology to create a dynamic society under a totalitarian regime. They might succeed, but I doubt it. Hitler managed to do it for a short period of time and I suspect China has lasted longer than the Third Reich, but will hopefully, meet the fate of the Soviet Union rather than that of the Third Reich.

The US is blessed with incredible natural resource and geographic advantages. It is one reason why we became a world power. It is more than capitalism, you need a functioning society.

Just like rich kids throw away their inheritance, countries can do the exact same thing.
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