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My husband and I were remarking that we had just gone to a "restaurant week" with over 400 diners the weekend before a shut down was ordered. Some people would avoid restaurants but to say everyone aware of the infection would avoid it is incorrect. Some people skim headlines and aren't interested in-depth health/disease topics, some people are skeptics, some people are risk takers, some people don't want to give up a guilty pleasure, some people have an anti-medicine belief system. For example, some people don't get flu shots, some people continue to smoke and drink alcohol despite knowing all the health risks, some people continue to sunbath despite health risks, some people continue to eat harmful foods despite diabetes, etc. So it goes some people will knowingly or unknowingly take the risk and go out for entertainment and enjoyment.
Sweden has keep non-essential businesses open people are continuing to patronize restaurants.
Some non-essential businesses. I suspect restaurant dine-in is for mainly for logistical reasons and will be ended rapidly if there are outbreaks traced to it. People should read the article. It mentions at the end why Sweden likely can safely take less drastic measure than other countries. It would be bad if anyone thinks "Sweden is open, America should re-open."
Infections cause avoidance. As soon as any non-essential business experiences virus problems, anyone aware of it (for which the media probably would do its part) would avoid it (and maybe other businesses in the category). That would include employees quitting in some cases. There is no vaguely communal workspace I know of that can avoid COVID-19 if it's in the general population. All options lead to a bad economic outcome, the laissez-faire option with many more lives lost. Someone tell me how disagreeing is anything more than being contrarian or in denial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen
Some non-essential businesses. I suspect restaurant dine-in is for mainly for logistical reasons and will be ended rapidly if there are outbreaks traced to it. People should read the article. It mentions at the end why Sweden likely can safely take less drastic measure than other countries. It would be bad if anyone thinks "Sweden is open, America should re-open."
Again, please stay on point:
Please refer to highlighted post where you state . . . anyone aware of the virus problems would avoid a non-essential business. It was in the context of if there wasn't a lock down non-essential businesses wouldn't be able to stay open. My complete post provided some reasons why this is not likely to happen including Sweden where restaurants are open and doing business. I am not stating whether or not this is a good thing - so let's not turn it into that argument -- just that it disproves your statement.
The point wasn't not that if anyone thinks Sweden is open, America should re-open. That was not the issue and you know it. You are trying to divert focus from the assumption you made that even if there wasn't a lock-down, people wouldn't go, employees would quit, etc., businesses couldn't stay open.
Your Assumptions and conjecture really miss the point.
So, instead of focusing on the very important topic and its specific question, you're being petty? "Anyone" was hyperbole. Enough people would stay out of an affected non-essential business that, certainly after a few such events in a community, the local economy and eventually too much of the national economy would collapse.
My husband and I were remarking that we had just gone to a "restaurant week" with over 400 diners the weekend before a shut down was ordered. Some people would avoid restaurants but to say everyone aware of the infection would avoid it is incorrect. Some people skim headlines and aren't interested in-depth health/disease topics, some people are skeptics, some people are risk takers, some people don't want to give up a guilty pleasure, some people have an anti-medicine belief system. For example, some people don't get flu shots, some people continue to smoke and drink alcohol despite knowing all the health risks, some people continue to sunbath despite health risks, some people continue to eat harmful foods despite diabetes, etc. So it goes some people will knowingly or unknowingly take the risk and go out for entertainment and enjoyment.
Sweden has keep non-essential businesses open people are continuing to patronize restaurants.
So, instead of focusing on the very important topic and its specific question, you're being petty? "Anyone" was hyperbole. Enough people would stay out of an affected non-essential business that, certainly after a few such events in a community, the local economy and eventually too much of the national economy would collapse.
Apparently, when you do not have a valid counter argument you resort to diversionary tactics, personal attack and personal assumptions so there is no reasoning with you. I see I've wasted my time here. Good Day.
By the way, the smoking rate in Sweden is low, and of course it doesn't have American obesity. Good for them if a full shutdown and severe economic collapse don't happen, but most of us should accept America was in major trouble once the virus arrived.
My husband and I were remarking that we had just gone to a "restaurant week" with over 400 diners the weekend before a shut down was ordered. Some people would avoid restaurants but to say everyone aware of the infection would avoid it is incorrect. Some people skim headlines and aren't interested in-depth health/disease topics, some people are skeptics, some people are risk takers, some people don't want to give up a guilty pleasure, some people have an anti-medicine belief system. For example, some people don't get flu shots, some people continue to smoke and drink alcohol despite knowing all the health risks, some people continue to sunbath despite health risks, some people continue to eat harmful foods despite diabetes, etc. So it goes some people will knowingly or unknowingly take the risk and go out for entertainment and enjoyment.
Sweden has keep non-essential businesses open people are continuing to patronize restaurants.
Americans are quite reluctant to give up creature comforts. Overnight shipping. Walmart low prices. And especially the foods we eat. Going by some historical accounts, when anti-German sentiment got high enough, we were "supposed to" stop eating Salisbury steaks. Even though it's an American food based off of what Germans eat, they still ended up changing it to hamburger to make it sound less German.
.
There was something that happened a decade ago where France did something to draw the ire of the Bush II administration. Some people did boycott products from France, like their wine, but they ended just swapping out "French" for "Freedom". So Burgers with freedom fries. Freedom toast at the IHOP. Jimmy freedom kissed Rebecca last week! There are 2 freedom horns in the band. I'm sure France and the rest of the world got a laugh out of that! (and yes, I continued to call them "French" whatevers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen
Some non-essential businesses. I suspect restaurant dine-in is for mainly for logistical reasons and will be ended rapidly if there are outbreaks traced to it. People should read the article. It mentions at the end why Sweden likely can safely take less drastic measure than other countries. It would be bad if anyone thinks "Sweden is open, America should re-open."
This seems to be a thing... when Americans see something that benefits themselves, they'll point to other countries doing the same thing. When Americans don't want to consider a course of action, they'll retort saying "We're Americans. We don't care what other countries think, nor value their input".
Any comorbid conditions, such as diabetes or COPD or cancer would be listed in Part II.
If COVID-19 is the process that led to death, it should be coded as on that sample, even if, for example, the patient had a cancer that was expected to kill him within a few months.
A positive COVID-19 test with no symptoms of COVID-19 would not be a legitimate cause of death. Then the fatal event, such as a heart attack, would be the cause and COVID-19 listed as a comorbidity.
If someone had flu and COVID-19 both should be on the death certificate.
A death from influenza should be described just like the sample COVID-19 certificate: respiratory failure due to pneumonia due to influenza.
Saibot, was influenza listed in Part II of the death certificate? What was the stated cause of death? Death certificates are notorious for inaccuracy. It really takes some experience to do them correctly. Also, without an autopsy a lot of causes of death are mis-attributed because they have to be determined based on the clinical picture.
There are too many people for whom underlying conditions are unknown to calculate a percentage.
NY is not doing any bulldozing of the dead. They are just burying unclaimed bodies sooner, not holding them as long. Each body goes into a coffin, though multiple coffins are being placed in trenches simultaneously rather than separate graves. The only bulldozing is to cover the coffins.
That is being done to free up morgue space.
And that's why I love City-Data Forum so much, all the useless bits of trivia I learn along the way. It never occurred to me that one could die from another disease and have asymptomatic COVID-19 at the same time. I should have thought of that.
I skipped the back-and-forth about actual cause of death as geeky, but I just looked up co-infection and it might have some significance in flu season. https://medium.com/@nigam/higher-co-...9-b24965088333
Someone with a positive test for COVID-19 probably should then get a flu test if symptomatic and without a recent flu shot. That would save some lives. Also, that would justify a stronger flu shot campaign for the next season, assuming one increases the chance of getting the other or the combination of infections is extra dangerous.
Americans are quite reluctant to give up creature comforts. Overnight shipping. Walmart low prices. And especially the foods we eat. Going by some historical accounts, when anti-German sentiment got high enough, we were "supposed to" stop eating Salisbury steaks. Even though it's an American food based off of what Germans eat, they still ended up changing it to hamburger to make it sound less German.
.
There was something that happened a decade ago where France did something to draw the ire of the Bush II administration. Some people did boycott products from France, like their wine, but they ended just swapping out "French" for "Freedom". So Burgers with freedom fries. Freedom toast at the IHOP. Jimmy freedom kissed Rebecca last week! There are 2 freedom horns in the band. I'm sure France and the rest of the world got a laugh out of that! (and yes, I continued to call them "French" whatevers).
This seems to be a thing... when Americans see something that benefits themselves, they'll point to other countries doing the same thing. When Americans don't want to consider a course of action, they'll retort saying "We're Americans. We don't care what other countries think, nor value their input".
But there is a middle ground and that is having an open mind, maybe it will; work maybe it won't work; neither dismissing or advocating an alternative way of doing something with unfounded assumptions.
But there is a middle ground and that is having an open mind, maybe it will; work maybe it won't work; neither dismissing or advocating an alternative way of doing something with unfounded assumptions.
If there is middleground, hard to find it here on C-D!
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