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I know it's not as obvious ... but the REAL issue is the economics. Not race.
Meaningful employment vs population levels ...and how this imbalance is only getting worse.
This reality affects unprepared whites (likely most of those complaining) just as much as blacks.
The black anger thing is about how easily it has been to prop up a target for the unprepared whites to attack.
They've been attacking the wrong enemy for a very very long time.
If the unprepared (white & black) had more/better jobs available ...
Or... If the unprepared we have (white & black) were substantially fewer ...
But these REAL and actually solvable issues are shunted aside. Who wants it that way?
I agree and disagree. One problem is definitely economics - Black people have been shut out of the economy on multiple levels. And any work to improve outcomes for poor people will help.
But we still have persistent racism that extends beyond class. Black unemployment is double white unemployment at every education level - including for advanced degrees. The wealth gap persists across all income levels. And housing has the same gap.
Not sure if you saw this investigation last year, but realtors show people of color fewer homes and do not show them homes in white majority areas in their budget. https://projects.newsday.com/long-is...investigation/
So when we are talking about economic inclusion, there needs to be a full reboot. Our country is missing opportunities because not all of its citizens can live up to their full potential.
I’ll end with this podcast about innovation and racism. A research found that oppressed minority groups can’t innovate as much when they are oppressed. And sadly the patent rate for Black people peaked in the 1890s, and fell consistently when there was civil unrest or incidents impacting Black people. Imagine what inventions we have been missing out on over the last century+. https://www.npr.org/2020/06/12/876097416/patent-racism
We are fighting the wrong enemy. The real power running the country is corporate and the motivation is for them to gain more money and more power. It doesn't matter if they call themselves Liberals or Conservatives because the goal is the same. Right now they are planning while many of us are fighting, distracted by what is really happening.
They don't care about equality. In fact they don't want it. I've been here, done this and this time around I'm starting to see through the mirage of good intentions. Keep people angry enough and they don't know what's going on.
We're going to wake up one day and nobody's going to have the freedoms we had fifty years ago when they started to use racism to manipulate the masses.
This is a story as old as the history of man finally come to America.
I agree and disagree. One problem is definitely economics - Black people have been shut out of the economy on multiple levels. And any work to improve outcomes for poor people will help.
Over the last 50 years there have been laws passed and programs started. There has been no statistical improvement. Doing the same thing and expecting different results?
Maybe complete rule of an area would be a possible answer. Not separation but the old Libertarian plan of moving to a few low population states such as Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. They would be the state majority, not just in a few cities like today, with all of the power that comes with it.
It wouldn't be easy. It would require a substantial number of high wealth Blacks to lead the way and create the jobs and housing for others to follow. Remember Lebanon went from a Catholic country to a Muslim country in one generation. People just have to move there. 3 Black governors. 6 Black senators.
This is possible. Unlikely, but it sure would be interesting. I'm sure there are articles online from when the Libertarian's thought of this.
I was thinking about what Thinkalot said yesterday while weeding my flowerbeds. What if white people have done everything they can think of and are willing to do to help Black people? What if Black people have done everything they can and are willing to do to reach their goals? And we're still disappointing each other.
If you forget about the hurt feelings for a moment (I know they're important but you can't legislate feelings of the outliers who are ignorant and hateful) Black people already have the basic legal standing for equality.
What if those things are true? What if Black people are never willing to forget about history and white people are never able to do enough to make up for it? Maybe we all just failed?
Maybe Black people would do better not expecting so much from white people. Looks like we aren't capable of giving them everything they need. I know sometimes I feel double-binded and defeated no matter what I do.
It's a place I think none of us ever wanted to be. We're stuck.
What if it's not about color of skin but instead about behavior?
I'd like to live with community builders no matter what their education, religion or skin color. If they are positive people willing to work within a set of agreed upon rules to create rather than destroy those are the people I want to live with.
YES!!! No one CARES what "color" someone is if that person is a normal citizen who has normal morals and values, i.e. go to work, pay bills, maintain your home, do not do crime.
#respectablelivesmatter
Last edited by VexedAndSolitary; 06-21-2020 at 02:00 PM..
I was thinking about what Thinkalot said yesterday while weeding my flowerbeds. What if white people have done everything they can think of and are willing to do to help Black people? What if Black people have done everything they can and are willing to do to reach their goals? And we're still disappointing each other.
If you forget about the hurt feelings for a moment (I know they're important but you can't legislate feelings of the outliers who are ignorant and hateful) Black people already have the basic legal standing for equality.
What if those things are true? What if Black people are never willing to forget about history and white people are never able to do enough to make up for it? Maybe we all just failed?
Maybe Black people would do better not expecting so much from white people. Looks like we aren't capable of giving them everything they need. I know sometimes I feel double-binded and defeated no matter what I do.
It's a place I think none of us ever wanted to be. We're stuck.
The black eye exists no matter what. Even rich black millionaires living in the Northern Hills of Beverly Hills still do not think life is perfect for them.
I've made this point in other threads that, in the past history with Romans or Spanish conquerors. Where they taken slaves but they are never allowed to breed. They are used, then tortured and killed. Once the empire became too big for the Romans they simply let them take care of themselves and no longer get involved except when they revolted then the Romans will come back. But they don't bring slaves back to Rome and allow them to breed. Which is why most of Europe and Asia have erased memories or lineage of slavery.
America's mistakes in the past is they brought slaves and allowed them to breed here many became fond of their slaves and made them like family members. Forever they are rooted with the fact they are the decedents of slaves. Some white people even today insist they did a noble thing of freeing the slaves but can you erase the fact they were slaves? What can you do to erase this black eye? The only way for blacks to erase this would be to have it the other way around which is exactly what they are doing... So think about this and it won't be a good ending for America until they resolve this problem one way or another.. I have spoken to many black people, until they get their way they won't stop. You can give them more money, make them millionaires, and give them land. It still won't resolve their pain and hatred.
Over the last 50 years there have been laws passed and programs started. There has been no statistical improvement. Doing the same thing and expecting different results?
Maybe complete rule of an area would be a possible answer. Not separation but the old Libertarian plan of moving to a few low population states such as Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota. They would be the state majority, not just in a few cities like today, with all of the power that comes with it.
It wouldn't be easy. It would require a substantial number of high wealth Blacks to lead the way and create the jobs and housing for others to follow. Remember Lebanon went from a Catholic country to a Muslim country in one generation. People just have to move there. 3 Black governors. 6 Black senators.
This is possible. Unlikely, but it sure would be interesting. I'm sure there are articles online from when the Libertarian's thought of this.
So we are talking about let’s say there was a 300 year head start and you think everything will be caught up in less than a generation? Seriously? And that so-called equality was really just a half-step at best. This is the exact problem. We still aren’t starting with a level playing field.
The black eye exists no matter what. Even rich black millionaires living in the Northern Hills of Beverly Hills still do not think life is perfect for them.
I've made this point in other threads that, in the past history with Romans or Spanish conquerors. Where they taken slaves but they are never allowed to breed. They are used, then tortured and killed. Once the empire became too big for the Romans they simply let them take care of themselves and no longer get involved except when they revolted then the Romans will come back. But they don't bring slaves back to Rome and allow them to breed. Which is why most of Europe and Asia have erased memories or lineage of slavery.
America's mistakes in the past is they brought slaves and allowed them to breed here many became fond of their slaves and made them like family members. Forever they are rooted with the fact they are the decedents of slaves. Some white people even today insist they did a noble thing of freeing the slaves but can you erase the fact they were slaves? What can you do to erase this black eye? The only way for blacks to erase this would be to have it the other way around which is exactly what they are doing... So think about this and it won't be a good ending for America until they resolve this problem one way or another.. I have spoken to many black people, until they get their way they won't stop. You can give them more money, make them millionaires, and give them land. It still won't resolve their pain and hatred.
What are you talking about. Black millionaires are mad because even being a millionaire doesn’t mean they will be treated respectfully in society. Police will still pull you over for b.s. Store clerks will ignore you. People will clutch their purses or cross the street when you walk by. Someone will assume the only way you could be a millionaire is via music, sports, or drugs. So this so-called equality doesn’t look very great to me.
I’m going to paraphrase an incident from a friend of a friend, to illustrate how far we are from equality.
So this woman, at the time a professional Black woman in her late 20s, went to open a new bank account in her town (in the “liberal Bay Area”). She decided to do this on her lunch break. Prior to coming in she consulted the bank about the best way to transfer the money from her old account and they said a cashiers check.
So she went to the bank with her cashiers check from a major bank 2 miles down the road, and her ID, etc. She hands the teller the check. The teller is skeptical, so she says you can call the bank to verify. The teller told her to sit down. So she waits for a few minutes.
And a couple of minutes later 5 police officers show up. They ask her to go to her car. They proceed to arrest her for forgery and trying to pass a fake check. She spends the afternoon at jail - missing work. After being help for several hours, the police officers finally decide to go down to the originating bank of the check and they verify it is real.
They go back to the station and release her. With no apology, but say the arrest will be cleared from her record. And do not admit they made a mistake.
Now obviously, that on its own is just a ridiculous incident. There is no reason she should have been arrested. And there is no reason the teller couldn’t have quickly called up the other bank to verify.
But unfortunately this story didn’t end here. Several years later she attempts to apply for TSA Pre. She finds out she is rejected because she has a criminal record. Eventually she gets access to the police report on her rap sheet. Turns out all of the parts about the arrest being wrongful and cancelled was redacted. So she has a record now. And no one can see that it was a mistake. Her record wasn’t cleared and there is no way to validate it was a wrongful arrest.
Can you imagine how you would feel if you had a rap sheet because some bank teller called the police on you for no reason?!?!?!?!?!?
And the solution offered was that she would need to hire an attorney to get her record cleared. Pay several thousand dollars to fix someone else’s mistake. Would you be p.o.ed?
So now several more years later when Gov Brown signs into law the bill about expunging arrest records for people who weren’t charged. So she jumps in to apply for this. And now she is still waiting for her record to be cleared. It has been over a decade since this incident.
This is why people are protesting right now. If something ridiculous like this hasn’t happens to you, it has happened to a friend. Or someone in your family. Or someone you know.
I’ve got a Black male friend who works at NASA. One day there was a burglary in his apartment complex. He came home from work and there were police cars everywhere. When he pulls up and attempts to park at his place, several police officers pull guns on him. He literally just got home and pulled up to his home. They didn’t start with any questions or ask him what he was doing. They started with guns. He was lucky that some neighbors were near by and were able to validate. And only then could he pull out his ID to show that he was a resident. How would you feel if this happened to you, or you brother, or your friend, or your son?
So I get really irritated when people are like “why are Black people angry. We have been so nice to them. They should shut up. We elected Obama. Why isn’t that enough?”
And really all people want is to be treated decently like all of our other neighbors. And have the rights given to us by birth, citizenship, or residency applied fairly. That is not too much to ask. That is the bare minimum.
Separation would be horrible but I'm not sure how much longer we can coexist with a contingent that's hell bent on the destruction of everything because they, right now at this moment, consider it dangerous. Nobody is making anything "less violent", in fact violence seems to be their language of choice at the moment. I can't get behind it myself but I also have no solutions that don't involve more violence.
So we are talking about let’s say there was a 300 year head start and you think everything will be caught up in less than a generation? Seriously? And that so-called equality was really just a half-step at best. This is the exact problem. We still aren’t starting with a level playing field.
There is no level playing field for anyone. Refugees, immigrants, etc. often come with nothing and build something. I'm not denying bad things done in the past, but bad things weren't just done to black people but that's all anyone ever thinks about and plenty has been done over the decades to try to address this but we ended up here anyway. There's no point in calling out the past anymore. We can make all the changes we want today , to every industry and institution, but people, attitudes and perceptions need to change as well. There's are well known formulas for success, we just need people to follow them. We'll never have 100% success at anything though.
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