Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Christopher Columbus story that we were all taught in school is a myth. Early Americans were looking for a non-British hero. Italian-American immigrants latched on to him during a time when they were being discriminated against. Columbus didn't discover America, and his methods (feeding indigenous babies to dogs, sex trafficking young girls, etc.) were seen as brutal even in his own time. There needs to be a reasonable discussion about what to do about his legacy, but really, the revisionist history is not taking down a Columbus statue, it's what we were all taught about him in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuremauian
Do you have a legitimate source for these accusations or is it just gossip you heard "somewhere"?
Do you have a legitimate source for these accusations or is it just gossip you heard "somewhere"?
I have a Master's Degree in American History, but I'm not going to do research for you. Since we're on the internet, here is an excerpt from an easily accessible article from 1975:
Quote:
[, Columbus led an expedition against the defenseless Indians that was incredibly savage in its slaughter of the naked islanders and destruction of their villages. The heavily armed Europeans were accompanied by ferocious greyhounds each of which, Las Casas wrote, “in an hour … could tear 100 Indians to pieces because all the people of this island had the custom of going … nude from head to foot.” Many people were taken alive, and five hundred were sent as slaves to be sold in Castile.
What we never learned in school was that Columbus was stripped of his title and authority by Spanish Royalty:
Quote:
Columbus’ downfall, harsh and humiliating, came within weeks of this decree. The sovereigns summarily removed him from his high estate of viceroy and governor of the New-World colonies and appointed the commendador (commander) Francisco de Bobadilla as his successor. In what many historians regard as an excess of zeal, Bobadilla sent Columbus and his two brothers back to Castile in chains.
Tearing down statues is one more way liberals tell conservatives that they no longer have power in America, and that liberals are now "in charge".
Conservatives still have control over much of the wealth and power in this country, so for liberals, statue destruction is a hollow victory.
I think you're wrong. I think most billionaires, corporate CEO's, college professors, teachers, and scientists are liberal or left of center. Only small business owners and blue collar workers tend to still be conservative in the U.S.
Quote:
Protestors get tired and go home. Entrenched power (and money) stands strong with or without statues.
The "protesters" have been at it for over a month and they seem to be gaining political power. They are getting streets named after them and they've got a new paid holiday.
Let's recognize that Cristopher Columbus will have a different significance to native Italians than he will to Native Americans. In a diverse society I believe it's important to acknowledge this. Otherwise we will destroy diversity by the tacit demand that all Americans must think about Mr. Columbus in exactly the same way.
Group Think. I believe George Orwell had some words of warning about that tendency of cultures heading toward totalitarianism.
I have to chuckle when I try to think of a single cultural hero who didn't have some serious failings in some part of his life. Tear 'em all down. We're all flawed humans with questionable motives and still we manage to get a few things right.
We need to drop this expectation that somehow if we try hard enough to hide ugly truths we can create Utopia. It's a false belief. Keep them all up. Tell the truth, both good and bad. Let the public make their own private minds up.
The things we all hate about humans will be with us as long as we exist. It's called "human nature" and it hasn't changed since we've been around. Our modern Columbuses are scouting out new areas for corporate development around the world as we speak.
We try to hide it with a very thin veneer of civility but as we've seen lately it doesn't take much for our hateful, violent, destructive side to pop out. Or for us to, true to human nature, justify it with noble excuses.
Of all groups which have worked to remove personal judgement based on morality the Left has been the most vocal. Yet we have this call to judgement and condemnation coming from them centuries after the historical evolution of those actions has done what it was going to do. Shadow boxing.
History isn't to be judged. That's silly and a negative destructive approach to a historical fact. Think what you want privately but there is nothing judgement can do that can't be altered by using good moral values with each other today.
History is to be learned from. Don't erase it. And practice what you learned.
I think you're wrong. I think most billionaires, corporate CEO's, college professors, teachers, and scientists are liberal or left of center. Only small business owners and blue collar workers tend to still be conservative in the U.S.
The "protesters" have been at it for over a month and they seem to be gaining political power. They are getting streets named after them and they've got a new paid holiday.
After dozens, if not hundreds, of protests and political upheavals throughout America's history, you believe this is the one that will transform America into something new or different?
Example: The CHAZ/CHOP experiment now has murders, shootings, and other violent crimes to it's credit (as expected) with no police.
Do you really believe America is ready to "defund the police" when one small segment of the population continues to commit the majority of violent crimes? Who will be safe?
I personally expect us to settle back into an uneasy standoff with concessions made to BLM supporters.
I had read most of the accusations directed at Columbus but had never heard of him feeding children to dogs or sex trafficking until now.
I also had professors in college who shared "previously unknown" stories about historical figures they didn't admire, or else they "embellished" to make their points.
I had read most of the accusations directed at Columbus but had never heard of him feeding children to dogs or sex trafficking until now.
I also had professors in college who shared "previously unknown" stories about historical figures they didn't admire, or else they "embellished" to make their points.
The reports of Columbus and his men feeding children to dogs and sex trafficking Native American women (among other atrocities) have been historically documented.
The Christopher Columbus story that we were all taught in school is a myth. Early Americans were looking for a non-British hero. Italian-American immigrants latched on to him during a time when they were being discriminated against. Columbus didn't discover America, and his methods (feeding indigenous babies to dogs, sex trafficking young girls, etc.) were seen as brutal even in his own time. There needs to be a reasonable discussion about what to do about his legacy, but really, the revisionist history is not taking down a Columbus statue, it's what we were all taught about him in the first place.
I can see why they did this. Hearing of a person who sold 9yo girls into slavery (so being in elementary school... look around the room and perhaps even yourself, and imagine some of your female classmates being sold into slavery for sex and housework), cutting off the hands and ears of indigenous people, and forcing them to wear their hands around their necks on a necklace and walk around.. that would've been too much. They at least waited until high school to describe holocaust victims being stripped naked, shaved, stripped of their gold teeth, and being gassed in chambers. Columbus bragged about these things in letters, and even those in his circle thought the guy was too much.
.
It'd be like having a statue of Osama Bin Laden. Sure, there's the whole deal with Sept. 11, but some would try to argue he did ready the state of our military, and provided new jobs via TSA. Or having a statue of Jared Fogle. Sure, he ended up having sex with underaged girls, but he did inspire many people to lose weight and live a healthier lifestyle.
The reports of Columbus and his men feeding children to dogs and sex trafficking Native American women (among other atrocities) have been historically documented.
I opened your first link and read the entire article.
It was followed by COMMENTS.
The very first comment (by James Whereat) disputed the story and claimed Columbus was against sex trafficking and was misquoted.
Historical Documentation often comes with more than one perspective. I am no fan of Columbus but this article was clearly written by a group seeking to discredit him.
Is INDIAN COUNTRY TODAY considered a fair and objective source? I suspect not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
