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The man was tried and convicted of crimes against humanity by his own government! That didn't happen for no reason.
Exactly...which means the old argument that he shouldn't be judged by today's standards but by those of his time is so ironic. He WAS judged by the men of his time and CONVICTED!
But do you not see the irony in calling the indigenous population defendiing their land against foreign invaders "violent savages" while the invaders themselves, who are documented as raping, mutilating, and killing, you excuse as being "products of their own time"?
Tearing down statues is one more way liberals tell conservatives that they no longer have power in America, and that liberals are now "in charge".
Conservatives still have control over much of the wealth and power in this country, so for liberals, statue destruction is a hollow victory.
Protestors get tired and go home. Entrenched power (and money) stands strong with or without statues.
Actually conservatives do not "have the power" in this country.
Trump was "elected by LESS than 27% of Americans eligible to vote. AND many conservatives do not think of Trump as an actual Republican.
Most Americans are not members of hate groups. Most Americans are not against a woman's right to choose. And most American's do not want to live in a theocracy. Hell most are not even affiliated with a church. MOST American's are currently horrified by police brutality.
Columbus? Time for a change. The capital of my state is thin king of changing it's name.
Christopher Columbus simply did what he had to do when he encountered a primitive and hostile population in the New World. The conquistadors like Hernan Cortes did even worse things to the native populations. That is how you conquer a continent. War isn’t supposed to be pretty.
It is ridiculous to judge the past based on the values we hold today. People lived and thought very differently back then.
That may be true.
It doesn't mean we have to worship them today with statues.
But do you not see the irony in calling the indigenous population defendiing their land against foreign invaders "violent savages" while the invaders themselves, who are documented as raping, mutilating, and killing, you excuse as being "products of their own time"?
Actually I was referring to how they treated other Indian tribes well before the white man ever set foot on this continent.
I would also point out how they treated the brown people as well.
As you may or may not know, many red people despised the brown people, even more than whites when they arrived.
Geronimo was known to hate Mexicans far more than any other race of people, and butchered them with relish.
As to my comment about products of their own time, yes that is a factual comment throughout human history. Maybe look back at Vlad the Impaler or even go back to Hannibal well before Christ.
The point being that we cannot judge historical figures by modern day norms or morals.
It seems as though you've missed quite a bit of the conversation that deals with the heart of this issue. And that would be the fact of so many who aren't out rioting, looting etc, being absolutely accepting of our need to stop honoring those who's deeds do not deserve that honor. That's the bottom line in this, to and fro, over the likes of Columbus and those in the confederacy leadership.
Most Germans, but not all, have the decency not to honor Hitler or any of his henchmen, many other despotic types have had their likeness struck down in contempt of their rule, is that wrong? I think your choice of words says quite a bit about the suspicion that this is all about politics--in your view..
Comparing Columbus to the confederates or Nazis does not serve you well.
You just negated everything you posted by this comment right here.
I think it may help to do a bit of non biased research. There have been plenty of instances of violence by conservatives.
Interesting
Please provide us with examples of where conservatives engaged in such?
[Do us all a favor and not give individual examples on lone kooks, rather masses of conservatives doing so]
Moderator edit: I somehow suspect that any such examples given may be met with the "no true Scotsman" defense. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
As in: "Those weren't REAL conservatives doing that, because no true conservative behaves that way."
Let's stick to the topic at hand. Thank you.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 07-01-2020 at 05:18 AM..
Actually I was referring to how they treated other Indian tribes well before the white man ever set foot on this continent.
I would also point out how they treated the brown people as well.
As you may or may not know, many red people despised the brown people, even more than whites when they arrived.
Geronimo was known to hate Mexicans far more than any other race of people, and butchered them with relish.
As to my comment about products of their own time, yes that is a factual comment throughout human history. Maybe look back at Vlad the Impaler or even go back to Hannibal well before Christ. The point being that we cannot judge historical figures by modern day norms or morals.
Actually I was referring to how they treated other Indian tribes well before the white man ever set foot on this continent.
I would also point out how they treated the brown people as well.
As you may or may not know, many red people despised the brown people, even more than whites when they arrived.
Geronimo was known to hate Mexicans far more than any other race of people, and butchered them with relish.
As to my comment about products of their own time, yes that is a factual comment throughout human history. Maybe look back at Vlad the Impaler or even go back to Hannibal well before Christ.
The point being that we cannot judge historical figures by modern day norms or morals.
The counterpoint is that even judging by the morals and norms way back then, Columbus falls significantly short of respectability.
He was convicted and imprisoned for his violent crimes.
That said, the taking down of statues of Columbus is obviously not occurring by conservatives, rather progressive liberals/leftists. For another poster to deflect by saying conservatives engage in riotous activity as well, I thought should rightly be challenged.
To some extent you are right, since I know American history well, and cannot envision mobs of destructive conservatives doing what the liberals are doing as we type these posts.
Maybe I should start a thread in the P&C to challenger NC Mom.
Regardless, we might very well not be here in America today if Columbus didn't stumble upon this continent back when all countries were looking to colonize new lands. But chances are some country would have discovered America with the intent on colonization. It has happened in other parts of the world, so eventually it would have happened here.
After all it is not some small remote island.
So other than the red people who were here before white Europeans, his discovery was beneficial to all present day Americans.
Thus statues (works of art commissioned by people, and sculptors who created them) of Columbus should not be taken down by angry mobs, just because they look at history through a PC lens.
If they are to be removed, then we should vote on it, and place them in an agreed upon location, whether it be a museum of even a persons private land.
Lastly, a simple question. Why today, not yesterday?
If these statues have been around for at least many decades (if not centuries), why all of a sudden must criminal mobs remove them.
Were our generations before not as sensitive or PC as the current generation, or have we become a bunch of petulant immature and intolerant fools that we must tear down things that do not comport with our present day sensibilities.
I remember when the Taliban destroyed those giant Buddhas, many people around the world (mostly non-Buddhist) were aghast.
Yet some of the present day criminals and domestic terrorists of history revel in their destruction every bit as must as the Islamic terrorists did.
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Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 07-01-2020 at 09:14 AM..
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