Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of course today in society more than ever it's all important for it to be inclusive to women no matter what it is, do you think it's necessarily sexist if a certain industry is "male dominated"?
For example, and nerdy sure, but take the video game industry; from the beginning it has been mostly marketed to boys/men, in while before there had been talk about it, it wasn't really until the 2010s that it suddenly became a major issue started by Anita Sarkeesian, a huge feminist that brought the "issue" up. That got $158,922 to make videos about it. She made lots of issues, but in particular she brought up "Since the beginning, video games have been made by men, for men." Really, is that a bad thing? As one that grew up on the OG NES going to lots of friends houses the girls really never really cared at trying to play video games near as much as the boys, heck, even as an adult the only video games I could ever get any of my girlfriends to play were puzzle genre.
Do you think that they have always been marketed to guys a big example of sexism, or do you think they were smart and wasn't sexist?
As a gamer who cut my teeth on Zork, I can say without hesitation - yes, the video game industry is sexist. In some cases, it is sexist with a very marked exclusionary emphasis. In other cases not so much.
Even something so simple as PacMan. Why did they have to create Lady PacMan? Why didn't they just call the game Pac? They had to create a "Lady" version to market the product to females, because females tend to be money makers - and money spenders.
Some of us are damned good skee bowl players - another game that involves money and skill that is in the category of a male-dominated industry. Skee bowl is marketed to boys, in particular. Families, secondarily. Girls and women specifically - not at all.
It is a bad thing if you're a gaming company that wants to make a killing in the industry. It's very possible that most of us are not interested in Minecraft. But we might all get a kick out of Dwarf Fortress and various Sim games.
In addition - games such as the old King's Quest, Myst, and the like, were all very popular among young adult females. They're not interested because the marketing goes out of its way to exclude them. Would you want to try something that the company doesn't even consider you a potential user when it creates its advertising?
Same reason most women don't go nuts over Nascar. Or football. It's just not marketed for women. If you marketed it for us, maybe we'd think "hey - someone's pointing this thing out, maybe I should take a look."
I've been playing text games (like Zork, except online interactive immersive multiplayer and based on RPGs from Wizards of the Coast and D&D) since 1992, and most current male gamers weren't even born yet in 1992.
So yeah - it's sexist as heck. But this is also old information. It's not news. And most of us women don't really care that it's sexist. We women who game are above all that nonsense. If the boys want to have their own boys club they should play on a closed server.
As a gamer who cut my teeth on Zork, I can say without hesitation - yes, the video game industry is sexist. In some cases, it is sexist with a very marked exclusionary emphasis. In other cases not so much.
Even something so simple as PacMan. Why did they have to create Lady PacMan? Why didn't they just call the game Pac? They had to create a "Lady" version to market the product to females, because females tend to be money makers - and money spenders.
Some of us are damned good skee bowl players - another game that involves money and skill that is in the category of a male-dominated industry. Skee bowl is marketed to boys, in particular. Families, secondarily. Girls and women specifically - not at all.
There is marketing for skeeball? Never seen it! But everyone I know male and female loves skeeball. There was a local bar that had skeeball, I was so crushed when they closed. It was so fun to go there and play.
Like when I was growing up, it made total sense that boys/men would naturally be far more interested in sitting down and spending hours in a fantasy world fighting monsters, demons, blowing crap up etc. etc.
To say nothing how often guys have been looked down upon and made fun of by girls/women for being into video games or being a "nerd".
Think about the above for a moment. Do you think girls didn't also sit down and spend hours a day in a fantasy world? What were they doing with their play time? Talking politics and running errands? They also like to imagine things, just not what you saw as a fantasy world.
In the 70s there was actually more parity in men/women playing video games. When it was things like Pong and Pac-Man, women took an interest, too.
As the content and culture became more hostile to women is when things tipped, and your second statement hints at why.
The industry became dominated by boys who saw themselves as marginalized or slighted by girls, by society, by jocks. They were angry and vengeful. Now, here was this new realm they could move into and claim as their own. It became a place where they thought they controlled things, and they dictated the rules. It was a boys' club. Those boys became empowered; they didn't fear speaking their mind and creating what they thought, and that's where the problem and the sexism really began.
The problem is not that video games appeal to one gender more than another, or that it's a field mostly worked in by males. The problem is that many of the males who do work in it, and create the content in it, are doing so unfiltered and we see that sexism and misogyny come through in its content and gameplay. And it sells, which is a clear indicator that there's buyers interested in taking part of that sexism and misogyny. Online games have become a haven for incels.
The portrayal of many female characters as hyper-feminized sexual objects should be glaring clue number one. Male avatars fight demons and dragons in armor; female avatars do it in high heels and miniskirts with exposed waists and gigantic breasts. Most women who play a MMO get unsolicited come-ons and pathetic puppy-dog flirts from the male players pretty regularly.
Again, it's not that it's male-dominated that makes it sexist; it's that it has sexist portrayals and content that make it sexist. Wii Sports isn't sexist, but WoW is.
Of course today in society more than ever it's all important for it to be inclusive to women no matter what it is, do you think it's necessarily sexist if a certain industry is "male dominated"?
For example, and nerdy sure, but take the video game industry; from the beginning it has been mostly marketed to boys/men, in while before there had been talk about it, it wasn't really until the 2010s that it suddenly became a major issue started by Anita Sarkeesian, a huge feminist that brought the "issue" up. That got $158,922 to make videos about it. She made lots of issues, but in particular she brought up "Since the beginning, video games have been made by men, for men." Really, is that a bad thing? As one that grew up on the OG NES going to lots of friends houses the girls really never really cared at trying to play video games near as much as the boys, heck, even as an adult the only video games I could ever get any of my girlfriends to play were puzzle genre.
Do you think that they have always been marketed to guys a big example of sexism, or do you think they were smart and wasn't sexist?
What's stopping women from creating their own games and marketing to women? They should not try to blame men for something they themselves are not doing.
fwiw, girls I grew up with, liked playing all the video games.
Think about the above for a moment. Do you think girls didn't also sit down and spend hours a day in a fantasy world? What were they doing with their play time? Talking politics and running errands? They also like to imagine things, just not what you saw as a fantasy world.
In the 70s there was actually more parity in men/women playing video games. When it was things like Pong and Pac-Man, women took an interest, too.
As the content and culture became more hostile to women is when things tipped, and your second statement hints at why.
The industry became dominated by boys who saw themselves as marginalized or slighted by girls, by society, by jocks. They were angry and vengeful. Now, here was this new realm they could move into and claim as their own. It became a place where they thought they controlled things, and they dictated the rules. It was a boys' club. Those boys became empowered; they didn't fear speaking their mind and creating what they thought, and that's where the problem and the sexism really began.
The problem is not that video games appeal to one gender more than another, or that it's a field mostly worked in by males. The problem is that many of the males who do work in it, and create the content in it, are doing so unfiltered and we see that sexism and misogyny come through in its content and gameplay. And it sells, which is a clear indicator that there's buyers interested in taking part of that sexism and misogyny. Online games have become a haven for incels.
The portrayal of many female characters as hyper-feminized sexual objects should be glaring clue number one. Male avatars fight demons and dragons in armor; female avatars do it in high heels and miniskirts with exposed waists and gigantic breasts. Most women who play a MMO get unsolicited come-ons and pathetic puppy-dog flirts from the male players pretty regularly.
Again, it's not that it's male-dominated that makes it sexist; it's that it has sexist portrayals and content that make it sexist. Wii Sports isn't sexist, but WoW is.
I lost interest in those things when they became too time involved and encompassing. Early games like Pac Man were just a recreation like pinball, not a lifestyle. Some of the boys started spending most of their time on video games at some point to the exclusion of other activities, and I think that is when girls said, okay we're out. Spending all of one's free time in a fantasy world behind an avatar isn't good for any kid.
What's stopping women from creating their own games and marketing to women? They should not try to blame men for something they themselves are not doing.
It isn't necessarily sexist if an industry is male dominated. But, practically speaking those industries are more likely to have issues with sexism given the gender imbalance. It's only common sense that a women's gender will be a bigger issue in an industry that is 80% male vs one that is 40% male.
There also maybe broader sexist reasons for why a industry is male dominated. Perhaps dangerous or physical jobs like mining or construction can be explained by biological differences. But, why finance or tech is so male dominated is harder to explain without looking to social factors.
They Electric Utility industry is (as far as my 30yrs have shown me) Dominated by White Males. Linemen, Power Plant operators and all the skilled trades associated are males mostly caucasian. The few Females I have encountered have worked as Permit Engineers or System Dispatchers, Drafters, or admin.. But the hardcore knuckle busters are Males.....( I would add that We are a rapidly ageing group!)
Of course today in society more than ever it's all important for it to be inclusive to women no matter what it is, do you think it's necessarily sexist if a certain industry is "male dominated"?
For example, and nerdy sure, but take the video game industry; from the beginning it has been mostly marketed to boys/men, in while before there had been talk about it, it wasn't really until the 2010s that it suddenly became a major issue started by Anita Sarkeesian, a huge feminist that brought the "issue" up. That got $158,922 to make videos about it. She made lots of issues, but in particular she brought up "Since the beginning, video games have been made by men, for men." Really, is that a bad thing? As one that grew up on the OG NES going to lots of friends houses the girls really never really cared at trying to play video games near as much as the boys, heck, even as an adult the only video games I could ever get any of my girlfriends to play were puzzle genre.
Do you think that they have always been marketed to guys a big example of sexism, or do you think they were smart and wasn't sexist?
I think that's an interesting question. I'm not familiar with Anita Sarkeesian, but I do know that more women are getting into gaming, and they struggle with (it seems) rampant sexism, with guys either hitting on them, or being vile and nasty toward them. Of course, not all guys, but there seems to be a lot of guys who fall in to that category.
Now...I'm pretty much the typical female who doesn't care about gaming. Not the typical games that guys like, anyway. I don't begrudge the guys though, for liking what they like. I don't think it's necessary for some game designer guy to make a game that appeals to ME.
But if you were to tell me that there are potential female game designers out there that can't get their foot in the door because say...oh I don't know...Nintendo is a male dominated company who refuses to work with women...well, that would be a problem.
No. Women are just not interested in certain fields. How do I know? Has anyone here ever been in a chess club? I was -and it's 95% male. And it's not like chess it the road to money and success so an evil patriarchy is keeping women out. Women are just not that interested in chess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by id77
Think about the above for a moment. Do you think girls didn't also sit down and spend hours a day in a fantasy world? What were they doing with their play time? Talking politics and running errands? They also like to imagine things, just not what you saw as a fantasy world.
In the 70s there was actually more parity in men/women playing video games. When it was things like Pong and Pac-Man, women took an interest, too.
That's not what I remember. The people into computers and gaming were all men. I remember some teachers asking some women why they weren't into it and one girl said she was afraid the computer would attacker her or something.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
