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I think there are (at least) two definitions of "class," social and economic.
You can make or lose money to change your economic class, but social class lines are much harder to cross. For instance, I grew up middle class, but was pretty poor as a young adult. My neighbors and coworkers treated me differently; we didn't share a perspective.
People who bootstrap to earn a lot of money are often not accepted by people who inherited a lot of money.
Weird customs like not wearing white after Labor Day and setting the table with a myriad of forks and wine glasses are designed to separate the sheep from the goats. Baa!
Very true and that has also been my experience.
I grew up working class and am the first person in my family to go beyond high school. The majority of people I encounter in positions at my level came from upper middle class backgrounds and it is strange to hear them ask me about where I interned or listen to them talk about vacation homes their parents had while they were growing up. They are horrified that I didn't go to private school and that I worked on a factory floor, lol.
I also don't get the not wearing certain colors after different holidays. I did learn which of the dozens of spoons/forks to use for what by watching someone else at a formal dinner
I definitely don't fit in but find commonalities. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm proud of my working class roots.
I do agree that someone can be in wildly different economic and social bubbles. Social class is a function of acquired cultural capital. Economic class is simply the money you have - rappers and sports stars are in the top 1% but few, if any, have cultural capital as understood by the educated classes.
Education is perhaps the biggest differentiator. It can push working class people into the professional classes. Education impacts accents, tastes, hobbies and interests. Education divides. Is there any factor more prominent than determining difference than education?
I grew up working class and am the first person in my family to go beyond high school. The majority of people I encounter in positions at my level came from upper middle class backgrounds and it is strange to hear them ask me about where I interned or listen to them talk about vacation homes their parents had while they were growing up. They are horrified that I didn't go to private school and that I worked on a factory floor, lol.
I also don't get the not wearing certain colors after different holidays. I did learn which of the dozens of spoons/forks to use for what by watching someone else at a formal dinner
I definitely don't fit in but find commonalities. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm proud of my working class roots.
People will always find something to feel superior to another. If same race, economic/social class it will be something else.
Not wearing white after Labor Day and setting the table aren't designed to separate anybody. They are just customs that people have followed for decades. My mother was brought up during the Depression and they were poor but she still taught me not to wear white after Labor Day and how to set a table. Even her grandparents were just farmers but there were customs to follow and it wan't about social class, just something that everybody did. [/quote ]
They started out as upperclass fads, then lower classes adopted them.
Wearing white became popular in the Edwardian era. White clothes had to be washed, bleached, and pressed every time they were worn, which takes a lot of work. Rich people of any class could afford servants to do all that, but the elite would just generate a new fad, so they could sneer at the gauche nouveau riche.
Even today, there are old money styles (classics, neutrals) and new money styles (Kardashian).
And I bet your great grandparents didn't set the table with six kinds of forks.
That's interesting. So white clothes signified upper class. Poor people had to wash and iron their own clothes, of course. No, they didn't set the table with six kinds of forks and they didn't own an heirloom set of sterling silver flatware either. They would not have fit in with the rich.
So we're getting to the point that the OP made, that class is everything. And,getting back to race, an educated black person gets along better with an educated white person than a ghetto type black person, I think. Probably it would take a black person to verify that. My dad's family of immigrants made sure that their kids all went to college even though it was during the Depression. It's the traditional way to get out of the working class and their friends were all college grads and they all worked at similar jobs. They worked hard and bought houses and all were straight middle class with a lot in common, including values.
People will always find something to feel superior to another. If same race, economic/social class it will be something else.
That's right. It will be ethnic group or something else they have in common like being good athletes or having the same hobbies. Where I live I sometimes feel left out due to food! Having grown up with plain old American food, I feel left out when everybody's eating kielbasa. I never heard of kielbasa. Most of the food here is Polish or Italian and not having grown up with it, it's not "my" kind of food and it's not what I would consider comfort food. When people down South talk about sweet tea or black eyed peas, I don't have a clue but that's what they love and value. Bisquits and gravy are not for me either, never had them. Does a Southerner value true Vermont maple syrup though?
Last edited by in_newengland; 08-27-2020 at 02:40 PM..
Here's a quote that illustrates the incongruity of class vs race: "Racism is the snobbery of the poor." -- Raymond Aron (1905-1983)
It seems as though French philosopher Raymond Aron was saying that the wealthy don't look down on other races as the poor do -- that such sordidness is beneath those belonging to a more polished caste.
However, we know that racist attitudes exist among both the poor and the wealthy alike -- that wealthy individuals are just as likely as poor individuals to rely on racist attitudes to bolster their self-image. I'm sure that there are many here who can think of examples in current events that show the wealthy are just as capable of racist "snobbery" as the poor are.
To say that "Racism is the snobbery of the poor" suggests that the poor must look down on those of other races because the poor possess nothing else of value in order to make themselves feel superior to anyone else -- least of all their "betters" among the wealthy class. But how patronizingly arrogant is this? I'm sure that there are also many here who can think of examples in current events that could easily justify the poor looking down on some of the wealthy in our society -- based on moral values alone, if nothing else.
I am pretty sure, OP is not about looking down at anyone, in racial or class related way.
More likely, it is about how much you get stuck in your tracks, when belonging to a certain class vs belonging to a certain race.
I have to agree on class thing though. If someone belongs to a certain class, he or she will be in a certain life "tunnel', so to speak. Will socialize with roughly same class children, go to a certain school, university, likely pre disposed to a certain job, married to a certain class person.
Certainly, there are offshoots in any system yet, they only prove general rule.
For a lumpen proletariat person, it takes much effort to "get out" into upper class especially, if his parents saw no benefit in education and development. And, some people are that way. They just like to be at the lower orbit and are happy with lower expectations.
As I mentioned, race has rather little to do with this, from what I witnessed as, I saw people of color do just fine and come from just fine families, without ANY shenanigans, preventing them from doing so. I seriously doubt that, one hit wonder neighbor I have, now turned music talk show host, had to claw tooth and nail through white resistance, to reach his wealth. I know nothing about his parents but, following suite, I know that MANY music stars have very solid financial family background. Great example is David Bowie or Trent Raznor. Both hail from very rich families, that invested solid into their musical careers.
My point being, and to OP, I do agree that, class background has more ot do with life success, than race. Maybe not in SAR anymore, where now there is black racism. But, in the US - no, it's the silver spoon you were born with, not skin color. Of course, unless you choose to use that, as excuse, to not to strive to personal development.
I am pretty sure, OP is not about looking down at anyone, in racial or class related way.
More likely, it is about how much you get stuck in your tracks, when belonging to a certain class vs belonging to a certain race.
I have to agree on class thing though. If someone belongs to a certain class, he or she will be in a certain life "tunnel', so to speak. Will socialize with roughly same class children, go to a certain school, university, likely pre disposed to a certain job, married to a certain class person.
Certainly, there are offshoots in any system yet, they only prove general rule.
For a lumpen proletariat person, it takes much effort to "get out" into upper class especially, if his parents saw no benefit in education and development. And, some people are that way. They just like to be at the lower orbit and are happy with lower expectations.
As I mentioned, race has rather little to do with this, from what I witnessed as, I saw people of color do just fine and come from just fine families, without ANY shenanigans, preventing them from doing so. I seriously doubt that, one hit wonder neighbor I have, now turned music talk show host, had to claw tooth and nail through white resistance, to reach his wealth. I know nothing about his parents but, following suite, I know that MANY music stars have very solid financial family background. Great example is David Bowie or Trent Raznor. Both hail from very rich families, that invested solid into their musical careers.
My point being, and to OP, I do agree that, class background has more ot do with life success, than race. Maybe not in SAR anymore, where now there is black racism. But, in the US - no, it's the silver spoon you were born with, not skin color. Of course, unless you choose to use that, as excuse, to not to strive to personal development.
What I meant was that your race has no bearing on you as a person at all. Your class however has a huge impact on your likes/dislikes/tastes/interests etc etc.
That's right. It will be ethic group or something else they have in common like being good athletes or having the same hobbies. Where I live I sometimes feel left out due to food! Having grown up with plain old American food, I feel left out when everybody's eating kielbasa. I never heard of kielbasa. Most of the food here is Polish or Italian and not having grown up with it, it's not "my" kind of food and it's not what I would consider comfort food. When people down South talk about sweet tea or black eyed peas, I don't have a clue but that's what they love and value. Bisquits and gravy are not for me either, never had them. Does a Southerner value true Vermont maple syrup though?
@ in_newengland :
Why not have a Potluck with your neighbors? You may learn about different foods that you might like. They might enjoy yours too. As for the "Southerner" & Vermont maple syrup, offer to bring some if they
make some Chicken & Waffles. Then you all can enjoy them.
__________________________________
Race, Class, Standing, and cultures, all have one big thing in common! Everybody has to eat.
Although we all don't always eat the same kinds of food. It doesn't mean, we can't share our favorites.
It doesn't matter if it's standard meals, or special occasion dinners.
The world all needs a big bowl of "Stone Soup". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Soup
Maybe we can get this world moving forward to a brighter future. Instead of dragging it down.
That's right. It will be ethic group or something else they have in common like being good athletes or having the same hobbies. Where I live I sometimes feel left out due to food! Having grown up with plain old American food, I feel left out when everybody's eating kielbasa. I never heard of kielbasa. Most of the food here is Polish or Italian and not having grown up with it, it's not "my" kind of food and it's not what I would consider comfort food. When people down South talk about sweet tea or black eyed peas, I don't have a clue but that's what they love and value. Bisquits and gravy are not for me either, never had them. Does a Southerner value true Vermont maple syrup though?
As a Texan, I assure you I use real maple syrup, but I get it from Canada.
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Everybody has to eat. 
