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Old 01-01-2021, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,960 posts, read 40,892,726 times
Reputation: 44884

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
As long the vaccine will give some protection and minimal side effects, I don't see any problem with a double dose.
Some vaccines need to be repeated every year (Influenza), some every x years (tetanus, diphtheria...), so Covid won't be much different:

Due to strains mutation, we might have to repeat the vaccination every year.
The coronavirus does not mutate the way the influenza viruses do. So far there is only one strain of SARS-CoV-2. The newly identified isolates are better called variants, and they are not different enough that the vaccine needs to be changed.

The issue of whether the vaccine needs to be repeated and, if so, how often, really depends on the duration of protection of the vaccine, and that does take time to determine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
RNA vaccines were authorized for human use this year. I'll wait a few years to see the results of rapid implementation of a new medical technology with huge financial, social, and political incentives.
No mention of the medical benefits? No concern about the virus killing over a third of a million people in the US since March, currently killing more people on a daily basis than heart disease and all cancers combined? It's all by itself as the Number One daily killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webster View Post
I might be wrong, but there is no "pure" tetanus vaccine now. It is combined with diphtheria, or perhaps the latter is a side effect of the first.
There is no stand alone tetanus vaccine in the US. It comes combined with diphtheria and pertussis in formulas for adults (Tdap) and children (DTaP) and combined with the diphtheria (Td) alone for adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Optimistically, COVID-19 will eventually be sort of like tuberculosis is now, where healthcare and social workers may require vaccination and others require tests or vaccination if they are in jobs that involve contact with members of the public. Realistically, some people will refuse the shot or will neglect boosters, so you will have some mixture of natural and vaccine-derived herd immunity. If 90% of the immunity comes from the vaccine and 10% from natural infection, then the death rate from COVID-19 would drop down to the same as the seasonal flu (in terms of deaths per 100,000 immune persons).
The US does not use the tuberculosis vaccine. Screening of at risk people is done with the TB skin test (or sometimes a blood test). People who test positive then require an evaluation to see whether they have an active infection and to determine treatment.

I do not think we know yet what level of vaccination will significantly slow circulation of the virus, and until the rest of the world gets vaccinated there will be the risk of importation, especially if vaccination is not a requirement to enter the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Had you given any thought to what would happen when coronavirus vaccines are announced? Because there are a lot of potential questions.

There are somewhere in the vicinity of 100 teams across the world racing to come up with vaccines. All the researchers would like the glory of being "the one" and all the money people are hoping for a big score. We have one, which not surprisingly is from a major company with a lot of power to ram it through. But now what?

But what happens when we have more available? The first, from Pfizer, already had two major inconveniences, the double dose, and the refrigeration. Because you just know that if there is a problem with a shipment refrigeration, it'll probably be kept secret. And a third one should be available soon.

What if the whole country rushes to be vaccinated, and then in the coming months even better ones emerge? What if the best one is very expensive, and American insurers only want to cover a less effective cheaper version? What if the best one is from another country, and American insurers are ordered to only reimburse for the American one which is considered to be third best? What if the best one is made in a country you don't trust? What if one is the safest, but another one offers the best protection? What if better ones come out, but the big pharmaceutical companies muscle out the little ones? What if you decide that you want a particular one, but your providers only offer something else? What happens when a quarter of the population is vaccinated, and people start fighting about whether of not we should still be wearing masks?

Then, beyond the immediate issues, what about the future? After all, the flu is perpetually changing, and new vaccines have to be developed again and again. Will we be going through this every year or two? Will the population be more alert and more efficient, or will people be lazier and think, well, I didn't get it last time, so I'm not going to bother with precautions now?

A lot of things to consider.
What makes you think a problem with refrigeration would be kept secret? The manufacturers absolutely do not want any incidents that would increase distrust of these vaccines.

Vaccine prices will have to be competitive with one another or the expensive ones will get squeezed out unless they are significantly more effective. You have a lot of "what ifs" in there but the biggest significant issue will be refrigeration. Less developed countries are going to want those that have less stringent storage needs because they have people in remote areas which cannot be reached with the cold chain limitations of the mRNA products.

As I said above, this coronavirus does not mutate the way flu does. There is no evidence yet that viruses are emerging that require the vaccines to be modified. However, the sooner we control the virus the less opportunity it will have to evolve into a truly new strain that can evade the vaccines.

Over the last year I have been appalled at the behavior of some people in this country who have not a clue about basic infection control, including politicians. There is truly no predicting what will happen.

If a better vaccine comes out, the less effective one will be phased out. Previously vaccinated people will be offered the option to take it. That is what happened with the two shingles vaccines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webster View Post
There will be a new normal, what it is we don't know. But in an era of travel in 14 hours non-stop flying, we will be exposed before we even know we are in a burgeoning pandemic.

Given the chaos of the rollout of the first polio vaccine (Cutter incident) which gave thousands polio, I think the protocols are in place for most folks. But I do wonder...what are the long term effects for someone like me who has a neurological disease? On the other hand, I did not take care of myself this long to be taken down by this little bug. Its a balancing act.

I remember the polio vaccine rollout. As I recall, it was in sugar cubes, two doses. It was at the local high school, the only place looking back that could handle it: in one door and out the rear. Masses of people, and I guess my parents were filling out papers and such. But my father who was one to complain about government mess ups did not complain about the process, so I have to assume it was smooth.
At this time there is no evidence that the vaccines will cause any problems worse than what the coronavirus is doing.

I remember the sugar cubes, too, at my elementary school, in the cafeteria. My mother was a volunteer, and she gave me my dose. My parents' families were from West Georgia, near the Warm Springs Foundation, and my dad and an aunt and uncle worked there before WWII. They knew people who had had polio, so there was no way they would have not had my brother and me vaccinated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Additionally, this is the first vaccine to use mRNA, and "For Emergency Use Only". They have been working with mRNA for some time, and they are excited to be able to put this into the general public.

This is a pretty good website, or so I think, and they are tracking the enthusiasm for the COVID 19 vaccines as far as using 4 categories from wanting it ASAP to not wanting it at all. The website has a lot of other info on cases/deaths etc. also.

https://www.kff.org/

As long as the vaccines contain mRNA, those that understand the difference between that and "normal" vaccines will be hesitating whether one is supposed to actually be better or not than others.

For both of the mRNA vaccines, it states that trials are still underway, and that there could be serious effects.
"For Emergency Use" isn't a category that makes me feel comfortable.

Big money involved, so the rush is on. Our family has chosen a hard pass, so that is 3 for others! We never get the flu shots either, thus our immune systems have had a workout over the decades.

These are FDA PDFs. I suspect all mRNA vaccines will be touted as so similar it won't matter which one someone gets. I do wonder if they will try to make a "standard" vaccine, something not so experimental in nature, which might help some feel more comfortable.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download
It is "For Emergency Use only" and we have an emergency. Every drug, including every vaccine, will have the disclaimer that there could be "serious effects". The lawyers make them say that. Trials in tens of thousands of people have not revealed any hint that there will be "serious effects" worse than COVID-19. What about the money being spent on medical care for COVID-19 and the economic consequences of the efforts to control the virus? You can buy a lot of vaccine for the cost of one extended ICU stay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Yes, a lot of things to consider.

There's a 1-shot vaccine close to being released, that doesn't require extreme temperatures for storage. They're monitoring their test subjects for a minimum of a year, to see how long immunity lasts. Undoubtedly, there will be other options coming into the market, too. I haven't heard anything about Kaiser's vaccine, even though they were the first to throw their hat in the ring last year.

The whole country isn't going to rush to be vaccinated, I can tell you that right now. Some people are choosing to be cautious, and taking a wait-and-see approach. Those would be the people, who might benefit from better choices available down the pike.

And yes, the virus is constantly evolving. There are already two strains in the US (and the original one in the UK is also a different strain), and there are people who get the mutated one, shortly after recovering from the original. This has been happening to young people with no risk factors, as well as older people, according to reports.

What's starting to concern me, in view of the constantly-mutating disease, is the economics of the Pharma industry having to chase after these mutations. Who's going to pay for all the new vaccines? The insurance companies, especially government-run ones, like Medicare/Medicaid and the Vet Admin, will surely balk. Is this going to boil down to either a massive burden on the federal budget, OR a situation where only those who can afford to pay out of pocket get to be vaccinated?

How is Canada handling this, btw? Anyone know?
Kaiser? Do you mean Pfizer? Theirs is one of the vaccines already available. The trials for the two mRNA vaccines are ongoing, too. I think they are scheduled to run two years, though the placebo group will be offered the vaccine.

I honestly do not think here will be any significant differences in the vaccines. I do not know when the fence sitters will think it is OK to be vaccinated. Personally, the trials so far do not give me reason to distrust any of them.

There is really only one strain of SARS-CoV-2. The viruses being isolated are variants and the vaccine makers have not seen evidence yet that new vaccines will be needed. The number of people who get infected again is small so far. That is another datum that needs time to be elucidated.

Canada is rolling out the vaccines, too. I do not think they have any info that we do not.
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Old 01-02-2021, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
30,585 posts, read 24,913,792 times
Reputation: 50788
As soon as I can get one, I’ll be in line. I see no reasonable down side to getting the vaccine.
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Old 01-04-2021, 04:33 AM
 
Location: London U.K.
2,587 posts, read 1,573,577 times
Reputation: 5781
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
As soon as I can get one, I’ll be in line. I see no reasonable down side to getting the vaccine.
Those were my thoughts exactly.
Over here, (U.K.), it looks like a never ending cycle of empty streets, closed up stores, shuttered bars, pubs and restaurants, everyone sitting at home, looking at each other or the TV.
No movie theatres, or regular theatres, deeply depressing, then I received a text from our NHS, “Hi Jean-François, you are eligible for the COVID-19 vaccinations, please call ABC123 to make an appointment, providing that you wish to have the vaccine.”
As we blue collar Londoners are prone to say, “I was in there like a rat up a drainpipe.”
Had the initial jab December 19th, no pain, no after effects, no bruise, nada, second is scheduled for January 9th.
A whole slew of rumours flying around the media about extending the period before administering the second jab, but to date, 10.30 a.m. London time today, January 4th, I’ve heard nothing about any cancellation of mine.
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Old 01-04-2021, 06:13 AM
 
4,143 posts, read 1,835,139 times
Reputation: 5765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
Those were my thoughts exactly.
Over here, (U.K.), it looks like a never ending cycle of empty streets, closed up stores, shuttered bars, pubs and restaurants, everyone sitting at home, looking at each other or the TV.
No movie theatres, or regular theatres, deeply depressing, then I received a text from our NHS, “Hi Jean-François, you are eligible for the COVID-19 vaccinations, please call ABC123 to make an appointment, providing that you wish to have the vaccine.”
As we blue collar Londoners are prone to say, “I was in there like a rat up a drainpipe.”
Had the initial jab December 19th, no pain, no after effects, no bruise, nada, second is scheduled for January 9th.
A whole slew of rumours flying around the media about extending the period before administering the second jab, but to date, 10.30 a.m. London time today, January 4th, I’ve heard nothing about any cancellation of mine.
My mother-in-law in England hasn't gotten her jab yet. She's up in Nottingham, so maybe it's because they've started with London first? I'm going to call her today to find out what's happening with that, as I'm worried about when she will get the vaccine. She's been on lockdown for quite awhile now, and I try to call her twice a week to cheer her up. Thankfully, she's got family around her who can check in on her.

I have no idea when I'll be getting the vaccine here in New York but, when I'm told it's my turn, I'll be in there faster than a buzzard on a gutwagon.
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Old 01-04-2021, 07:21 AM
 
18,039 posts, read 25,052,276 times
Reputation: 16721
I just wonder how it is ok for the government to run health care in this case
but it's not ok for the government to have a health insurance public option.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:32 AM
 
Location: London U.K.
2,587 posts, read 1,573,577 times
Reputation: 5781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork View Post
My mother-in-law in England hasn't gotten her jab yet. She's up in Nottingham, so maybe it's because they've started with London first? I'm going to call her today to find out what's happening with that, as I'm worried about when she will get the vaccine. She's been on lockdown for quite awhile now, and I try to call her twice a week to cheer her up. Thankfully, she's got family around her who can check in on her.

I have no idea when I'll be getting the vaccine here in New York but, when I'm told it's my turn, I'll be in there faster than a buzzard on a gutwagon.
Buzzard on a gutwagon? Cut off my legs and call me shorty, I think that’s got my “rat up a drainpipe” beat.
Maybe your ma-in-law is a spring chicken, my jab was quick off the mark as I’m 81, although when asked for my D.O.B., I always tell the truth, but add, “I look older as I worry a lot!”
This usually gets, “You’re kidding, you only look mid sixties!” Never kid a kidder.
I have a friend in NYC, a 59 y.o. child psychologist, she’s hoping that she can cut in line, as she’s a medico.
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:46 AM
 
Location: London U.K.
2,587 posts, read 1,573,577 times
Reputation: 5781
A whole slew of rumours flying around the media about extending the period before administering the second jab, but to date, 10.30 a.m. London time today, January 4th, I’ve heard nothing about any cancellation of mine.


That’ll larn me to keep my trap shut, just had a call from my doctor’s office,
my second jab has been put back to March 13th at 4.00 p.m.

Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 01-04-2021 at 03:25 PM.. Reason: Fixed glitch in forum.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:03 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 3,977,052 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The coronavirus does not mutate the way the influenza viruses do. So far there is only one strain of SARS-CoV-2. The newly identified isolates are better called variants, and they are not different enough that the vaccine needs to be changed.

The issue of whether the vaccine needs to be repeated and, if so, how often, really depends on the duration of protection of the vaccine, and that does take time to determine.



No mention of the medical benefits? No concern about the virus killing over a third of a million people in the US since March, currently killing more people on a daily basis than heart disease and all cancers combined? It's all by itself as the Number One daily killer.



There is no stand alone tetanus vaccine in the US. It comes combined with diphtheria and pertussis in formulas for adults (Tdap) and children (DTaP) and combined with the diphtheria (Td) alone for adults.



The US does not use the tuberculosis vaccine. Screening of at risk people is done with the TB skin test (or sometimes a blood test). People who test positive then require an evaluation to see whether they have an active infection and to determine treatment.

I do not think we know yet what level of vaccination will significantly slow circulation of the virus, and until the rest of the world gets vaccinated there will be the risk of importation, especially if vaccination is not a requirement to enter the country.



What makes you think a problem with refrigeration would be kept secret? The manufacturers absolutely do not want any incidents that would increase distrust of these vaccines.

Vaccine prices will have to be competitive with one another or the expensive ones will get squeezed out unless they are significantly more effective. You have a lot of "what ifs" in there but the biggest significant issue will be refrigeration. Less developed countries are going to want those that have less stringent storage needs because they have people in remote areas which cannot be reached with the cold chain limitations of the mRNA products.

As I said above, this coronavirus does not mutate the way flu does. There is no evidence yet that viruses are emerging that require the vaccines to be modified. However, the sooner we control the virus the less opportunity it will have to evolve into a truly new strain that can evade the vaccines.

Over the last year I have been appalled at the behavior of some people in this country who have not a clue about basic infection control, including politicians. There is truly no predicting what will happen.

If a better vaccine comes out, the less effective one will be phased out. Previously vaccinated people will be offered the option to take it. That is what happened with the two shingles vaccines.



At this time there is no evidence that the vaccines will cause any problems worse than what the coronavirus is doing.

I remember the sugar cubes, too, at my elementary school, in the cafeteria. My mother was a volunteer, and she gave me my dose. My parents' families were from West Georgia, near the Warm Springs Foundation, and my dad and an aunt and uncle worked there before WWII. They knew people who had had polio, so there was no way they would have not had my brother and me vaccinated.



It is "For Emergency Use only" and we have an emergency. Every drug, including every vaccine, will have the disclaimer that there could be "serious effects". The lawyers make them say that. Trials in tens of thousands of people have not revealed any hint that there will be "serious effects" worse than COVID-19. What about the money being spent on medical care for COVID-19 and the economic consequences of the efforts to control the virus? You can buy a lot of vaccine for the cost of one extended ICU stay.



Kaiser? Do you mean Pfizer? Theirs is one of the vaccines already available. The trials for the two mRNA vaccines are ongoing, too. I think they are scheduled to run two years, though the placebo group will be offered the vaccine.

I honestly do not think here will be any significant differences in the vaccines. I do not know when the fence sitters will think it is OK to be vaccinated. Personally, the trials so far do not give me reason to distrust any of them.

There is really only one strain of SARS-CoV-2. The viruses being isolated are variants and the vaccine makers have not seen evidence yet that new vaccines will be needed. The number of people who get infected again is small so far. That is another datum that needs time to be elucidated.

Canada is rolling out the vaccines, too. I do not think they have any info that we do not.
Is the science behind the COVID-19 vaccine the same as the cure they came up with for Hepatitis C?
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,960 posts, read 40,892,726 times
Reputation: 44884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
Is the science behind the COVID-19 vaccine the same as the cure they came up with for Hepatitis C?
No. The hepatitis C meds are direct-acting antivirals, not vaccines.

https://www.webmd.com/hepatitis/unde...is-c-treatment
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:25 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,634 posts, read 28,419,191 times
Reputation: 50424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
A whole slew of rumours flying around the media about extending the period before administering the second jab, but to date, 10.30 a.m. London time today, January 4th, I’ve heard nothing about any cancellation of mine.


That’ll larn me to keep my trap shut, just had a call from my doctor’s office,
my second jab has been put back to March 13th at 4.00 p.m.


Yep. Someone (in the government?) got the bright idea that more people could be vaccinated if they only give out the first shot and make people wait 12 weeks to get the second. So with zero notice, that's what happened, although there were rumors and people started to worry even though they had been told 3 weeks.

There isn't much data as to whether the vaccine will still be as effective if people wait for 12 weeks instead of three weeks and it's given the US the bright idea of maybe only giving us 1/2 dose! So we could get 1/2 dose and supposedly get a little bit of protection instead of getting one dose and then the second and get over 90% protection for certain.

It's all about the new variant that has the UK government scared out of its wits. Stay tuned to hear Boris' announcement about new lockdowns at 8PM GMT. What fun. These people talk and talk and talk, get people all upset and confused, and then come out with something drastic and questionable at the very last minute. Just give people the vaccine, as they said they would and stop messing around with us.

Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 01-04-2021 at 03:26 PM.. Reason: Fixed glitch in forum.
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