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Do you know what happened to many of the Signers? Surely they knew they were risking personal safety to form a new nation. Some had their houses burned, etc. Do some research on that, it was then, and is still not pretty.
YES, this is something many people today simply do not understand, or refuse to recognize for some reason, these people were overthrowing their own Govt and resorted to violence, destruction of property, theft, etc to do so!
I have to laugh when I hear people talk so much about 'resorting to violence' and how violence has no place in politics...when America gained her freedom due to this very thing! LOL (its not exactly 'hypocrisy', Im not sure what the term is for this)
Its said that 1/3 of the colonists supported breaking free from England, 1/3 were 'Tories' and wanted to remain loyal to England and the other 1/3 didnt care either way...I have to wonder, after we won the American Revolution, did the Tories did just give up and admit defeat or did they continue to fight?
Attributing the 1/3 quote to the American revolution is not reading the source correctly. It is from the letter John Adams wrote to James Lloyd, 28 January 1815. The entire letter is linked below.
He is referring to American attitudes to the French Revolution. This is clear from the sentence below:
"The depredations of France upon our Commerce, and her Insolence to our Ambassadors and even to the Government, united for a Short time..."
France did not interfere with our commerce during the American Revolution; they were our ally and we signed with them the Treaty of Amity and Commerce Between the United States and France in 1778. Franklin and he were treated very well by the French, it was the American ambassadors to France during the French Revolution (Monroe and Pinckney) who were not. We ended up breaking off diplomatic relations with France from 1796 to 1801.
Current estimates are that about 15% to at the most 20% of colonists were Loyalists. About 60,000 went to Canada. Some simply relocated elsewhere in the US. For example, John Wickham was a Loyalist from NY. He was sentenced to death by the State of New York for treason* and moved to VA where he had a lucrative law practice. He was one of Aaron Burr's defense lawyers in Burr's treason trial. His house i now a museum: https://thevalentine.org/exhibition/...ckham-house-3/
*At that time and even today in some states, one can be tried for treason against a state. VA Code has it § 18.2-481.
YES, this is something many people today simply do not understand, or refuse to recognize for some reason, these people were overthrowing their own Govt and resorted to violence, destruction of property, theft, etc to do so!
I have to laugh when I hear people talk so much about 'resorting to violence' and how violence has no place in politics...when America gained her freedom due to this very thing! LOL (its not exactly 'hypocrisy', Im not sure what the term is for this)
Its said that 1/3 of the colonists supported breaking free from England, 1/3 were 'Tories' and wanted to remain loyal to England and the other 1/3 didnt care either way...I have to wonder, after we won the American Revolution, did the Tories did just give up and admit defeat or did they continue to fight?
Our founders were rebelling against a faraway government that did not have their best interests at heart. Yes, the Revolutionary War was violent. When some states decided they wanted to keep the enslavement of people legal, because it was to their economic advantage, they attempted to leave the union. That did not go well for them.
Some of the far right extremists speak of fomenting civil war. I doubt any states would actually secede. But if segments of our country began warfare, it would cause terrible suffering for all involved. It is hard for me to understand the loose talk about civil war. Do they imagine that there will be millions of their ilk rising up with them? They are living in a fantasy world and communicating in an echo chamber, it seems to me.
Our founders were rebelling against a faraway government that did not have their best interests at heart. Yes, the Revolutionary War was violent. When some states decided they wanted to keep the enslavement of people legal, because it was to their economic advantage, they attempted to leave the union. That did not go well for them.
Some of the far right extremists speak of fomenting civil war. I doubt any states would actually secede. But if segments of our country began warfare, it would cause terrible suffering for all involved. It is hard for me to understand the loose talk about civil war. Do they imagine that there will be millions of their ilk rising up with them? They are living in a fantasy world and communicating in an echo chamber, it seems to me.
I do agree with most of this post, but the 'millions rising up together'...That has never been the case, American Revolution or the Civil war...
Do you think EVERYONE in the south agreed on slavery, or going to war with the north? Or that everyone in the north was against slavery...or In the American Revolution, NOT EVERYONE in the colonies believed America should become a free and separate nation, about 1/3 of the colonies were 'Tories'.
However, today, NO ONE is still against America being a free and separate nation, likewise, (with the civil war), NO ONE is still upset about the outcome, (there may be extremely radical sects that have these feelings but certainly not mainstream or popular, Id bet they are less than 1% if that).
At the end of the day, whichever side WINS, will ultimately turn out to be the side that is 'right'.
No, 1/3 of the colonists were not Loyalist. If there is a source for such a number, it would be helpful to know. Tories: Fighting for the King in America's First Civil War by Thomas B. Allen is an excellent read using the most recent scholarship. As noted above, the 1/3 number is based on not going to the primary source.
I do agree with most of this post, but the 'millions rising up together'...That has never been the case, American Revolution or the Civil war...
Do you think EVERYONE in the south agreed on slavery, or going to war with the north? Or that everyone in the north was against slavery...or In the American Revolution, NOT EVERYONE in the colonies believed America should become a free and separate nation, about 1/3 of the colonies were 'Tories'.
However, today, NO ONE is still against America being a free and separate nation, likewise, (with the civil war), NO ONE is still upset about the outcome, (there may be extremely radical sects that have these feelings but certainly not mainstream or popular, Id bet they are less than 1% if that).
At the end of the day, whichever side WINS, will ultimately turn out to be the side that is 'right'.
I know that people in the Northern states were not unified in opposition to slavery. I assume that people choosing to live in states that allowed slavery would assent to it, or they would not live there. But perhaps I am wrong in this.
My point was that millions would NOT rise up in rebellion, as right wing extremists (some of them) seem to believe.
More than anything else that frightened the Founders was mob rule. A glimpse of their thoughts on this are in the exchange of letters between Henry Knox and George Washington regarding Shay's rebellion.
I know that people in the Northern states were not unified in opposition to slavery. I assume that people choosing to live in states that allowed slavery would assent to it, or they would not live there. But perhaps I am wrong in this.
My point was that millions would NOT rise up in rebellion, as right wing extremists (some of them) seem to believe.
My point was, 'millions' would not need to rise up to rebel. The American Revolution is a perfect example, only about 1/3 of the colonists agreed about breaking free from England, and Im assuming the percentage that thought they should use violence was lower...
But, needless to say, this revolution came to be celebrated by EVERYONE.
Do you hear anyone today speaking out against the use of 'violence, destruction of property, etc' during the American Revolution? Heck, not even England still complains about this!
I know that people in the Northern states were not unified in opposition to slavery. I assume that people choosing to live in states that allowed slavery would assent to it, or they would not live there.But perhaps I am wrong in this.
My point was that millions would NOT rise up in rebellion, as right wing extremists (some of them) seem to believe.
You would be wrong. For example, New Jersey was a southern-sympathizing state in the north. They upheld the fugitive slave laws, and there were still a small number of slaves in the state on the eve of the Civil War (they were called apprentices and were mostly older people born before the gradual emancipation act in 1804). But the division over slavery was so bitter that the minister of Old Paramus Reformed Church, a historic church in northern New Jersey, quit his job there because his congregation was fighting so badly over the issue.
Newark, New Jersey, was a manufacturing center that made cheap clothes and shoes that slaveholders in the south bought to clothe their slaves. There was an economic favorability to slavery even in a state that had few slaves.
It's kind of odd that you think people would just leave a state over one issue. People back in 1860 didn't just pack up and go somewhere else. They had land and established farms, and just like now, they thought the way they wanted things to be would prevail.
Was the Declaration of independence a deceptive document for the times. Consider this. The year is 1776 and their is no internet ,no phone, nothing modern. The local meeting places were churches, saloons and schools.
Now with the United Sates being newly minted they need deception to lure folks in. What better than to tell everyone that in America you are free and created equal. Now the founding fathers were deists, not Christian.
If the founding fathers really meant that all men were created equal why did they have slaves? Slavery actually grew in the next 90 years before the civil war. If the words of all men were created equal really meant something they would have implemented it right away, at their own estates. They were all filthy rich. They would all grow even richer.
If the time is 1778 and you are in a saloon drinking and you hear about how great America is and freedom you will have from the ship's captain who is selling passage. Would you go? Then after a long voyage you wind up in the ghetto's of New York.
I say strong evidence exists that the Declaration of Independence was mere propaganda. They needed folks to do the work and needed to give them hope. Truth is some made it, most did not. If all men were created equal really meant anything it would have been implemented right away. We would have had no civil war or any of this mess. Evidence suggests the founding fathers were hypocritical liars. You agree or disagree.
I don't mean to be cranky, but you asked 4 questions, not one.
How about dropping the ones you don't want discussed? With so many questions, folks will only become confused trying to keep track of what's being answered.
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