Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I honestly don't know who is supposed to be stopping whom from wishing anyone a "Merry Christmas." I've heard Bill O'Reilly on Fox News rail about the "War on Christmas" every year, but it all seems to be media-fueled, manufactured outrage, if you ask me.
Here in the Northeastern United States we have a chain of stores called "The Christmas Tree Shop." There's one of these stores not far from where I live, in fact, and I shop in it regularly. The store is kind of like an old timey Woolworth's Five and Dime, and they sell everything but Christmas trees. I've never even seen them sell Christmas trees in December.
One of these days, I expect to see Bill O'Reilly storm into a Christmas Tree Shop and angrily demand to see some Christmas trees to buy. And, when he is politely told that they don't sell Christmas trees, Bill O'Reilly can then launch a "War on Christmas Trees" thingy to express his new-found outrage that he was denied a Christmas tree when he wanted one. That they "cancelled" his Christmas tree. His annual "War on Christmas" thingy was getting a bit tired, anyway, and a new theme of "War on Christmas Trees" would probably add some new life to his shtik.
jbgusa, if you want me to wish you a "Merry Christmas," then I want you to know that I have no compunctions whatsoever about doing so. I have to admit, though, that I do find it a bit peculiar wishing a fellow Jew a "Merry Christmas." I would probably be more inclined to wish you a "Yom Tov," as that would happen to be my own preference (especially since I don't celebrate Christmas, myself). But, to each his own.
I think this business about "the war on Christmas" is a right wing trope.
I've celebrated Christmas my entire life and I've never seen anyone interfering with it. The truth of the matter is as I age I find it less and less satisfying. Now that my kids have grown up and left home it isn't nearly as fun. I particularly find the emphasis on buying things and gift giving to be annoying. This was an extremely difficult year as it practically brought Christmas parties (something I still enjoy about the holiday) to an end.
I think there is a growing recognition in America that some groups have been ignored and left out of the social and cultural life of our nation. I don't think anyone is asking us to "cancel Christmas". At most what they are asking for is for some recognition to be given to holidays like Kwanzaa or Hanukkah. Should we not consider the feelings of those who believe they have been left out? We can be more inclusive without doing violence to our own idea of Christmas.
I will continue reflexively wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. I really think all this fuss is nonsense.
jbgusa, if you want me to wish you a "Merry Christmas," then I want you to know that I have no compunctions whatsoever about doing so. I have to admit, though, that I do find it a bit peculiar wishing a fellow Jew a "Merry Christmas." I would probably be more inclined to wish you a "Yom Tov," as that would happen to be my own preference (especially since I don't celebrate Christmas, myself). But, to each his own.
Christmas is an American holiday, not solely a religious holiday. I wish fellow Jews Happy Chanukah or something like that.
Christmas is an American holiday, not solely a religious holiday. I wish fellow Jews Happy Chanukah or something like that.
I've heard a lot of people saying that their fellow Christians have forgotten to "keep the Christ" in Christmas, and that Christ is "the reason for the season."
Out of respect for my Christian neighbors, I wouldn't view Christmas as being less than a religious holiday. Just as I view Chanukah not as "Jewish Christmas" and an excuse to get presents, but as a religious holiday commemorating both a miracle and the Maccabees' struggle against assimilation and for our right to religious freedom.
I've heard a lot of people saying that their fellow Christians have forgotten to "keep the Christ" in Christmas, and that Christ is "the reason for the season."
Out of respect for my Christian neighbors, I wouldn't view Christmas as being less than a religious holiday.
As you probably suspect I a devoted Jew, an "observant Reform Jew" if you will. There is no escaping the fact that the U.S.'s founding was largely a Christian and deist accomplishment. In most though not all ways the U.S. has been a warm place for Jews. Christmas thus has official status; it is a legal holiday. I am not going to go to church but I don't hesitate to drive around to admire the Christmas light displays, attend a Handel or Bach concert, etc. I have more trouble with Easter. It has not, by and large, been a legal holiday because it falls out on a Sunday. Still, as long as our need to not work on High Holy Days or the festivals such as Sukkoth and Shavouth, I am fine with showing proper respect for Christmas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork
Just as I view Chanukah not as "Jewish Christmas" and an excuse to get presents, but as a religious holiday commemorating both a miracle and the Maccabees' struggle against assimilation and for our right to religious freedom.
I may have posted this before but I remind people that Chanukah is a minor holiday celebrating a very passing and transitory military victory. The gloss on it is better; it, like Purim, might be seen as analogous to the David and Goliath story, the triumph of right over might. I absolutely agree that is in no way analogous to Christmas. The one grain of truth is that both are positioned at or about the time of the Winter Solstice. That, together with religion, are worth celebrating.
As you probably suspect I a devoted Jew, an "observant Reform Jew" if you will. There is no escaping the fact that the U.S.'s founding was largely a Christian and deist accomplishment. In most though not all ways the U.S. has been a warm place for Jews. Christmas thus has official status; it is a legal holiday. I am not going to go to church but I don't hesitate to drive around to admire the Christmas light displays, attend a Handel or Bach concert, etc. I have more trouble with Easter. It has not, by and large, been a legal holiday because it falls out on a Sunday. Still, as long as our need to not work on High Holy Days or the festivals such as Sukkoth and Shavouth, I am fine with showing proper respect for Christmas.
I tend to think more of Independence Day and Thanksgiving Day as being American holidays than Christmas. I don't mind Christmas Day being a "legal holiday," as it means a day off from work for me, dinner at a Chinese restaurant, and a movie in a theater that's near-empty except for me and my rowdy friends. Couldn't do it this past year, though, on account of the pandemic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
I may have posted this before but I remind people that Chanukah is a minor holiday celebrating a very passing and transitory military victory. The gloss on it is better; it, like Purim, might be seen as analogous to the David and Goliath story, the triumph of right over might. I absolutely agree that is in no way analogous to Christmas. The one grain of truth is that both are positioned at or about the time of the Winter Solstice. That, together with religion, are worth celebrating.
With all due respect, I think you're wrong about calling Chanukah a "minor holiday." While I agree that Chanukah is certainly not as foremost as those Jewish holidays on which all work is proscribed, there is nevertheless something special about Chanukah which ought to make it very important to all of us.
Maimonides, in his Laws of Chanukah, stressed not only the importance of Chanukah but especially the very important mitzvah of kindling the menorah. Centuries passed after the time of Maimonides, during which we couldn't display the lighted menorah in the windows of our homes as we once did. But then, Jewish immigrants who came to America were able once again to display the lighted menorah, proudly declaring: "Here lives a Jew." I'm sure I don't need to tell you that this wonderful thing was not possible in the European countries from which these immigrants came. That very act of being able to make such a visible declaration of one's Jewishness, without fear of attack or worse, makes Chanukah a significant holiday, in my estimation. It makes America a very special country, as well.
Taking this back to the OP's complaint about being "shut down" from having an "honest discussion" by those with whom he may find himself in disagreement on Facebook or Twitter or whatever... I can only shake my head in wonder at how some people view this kind of social shunning as being some form of intolerable injustice. Especially when there are still places in the world where actual governments physically oppress and murder those with whom they disagree, or whom they just don't like.
But it will have to get a lot worse before it gets better.
It's getting to point of being ridiculous now. No one can keep up with what should and shouldn't be said. The list grows daily.
There's a breaking point at which good people are going to say "You know what? I don't anymore care what you think about me, or what you call me, I am going to speak my mind and beliefs, regardless."
I also believe that as more and more people get entangled and outed in their own deceptions and hypocrisy, the tide will turn.
Truth will always out.
That Bolded is what created the divide. "telling it like it "supposedly" *IS*. " Usually is a judgmental opinion of a person or a subject. Biasness or criticism guised as "I am just being honest". Perhaps there is a form of criticism that is necessary to re-align a process.
People....No we do not care to be "re-aligned". Those of us who are bent are so because the pressure from the right and left keep tugging us to ONLY BOW to their side of a conversation.
I dearly LOVE some "debates" worthy of exchanging data that had yet been brought to light. Its enhancing. Be it history, current events or Processes in business.
There are public discussions of honest topics, and even Relationship discussions with Honest conveyance. Both which at times I find a challenge to JUMP into knowing the orator may be high strung or far too "passionate" to allow information to cross paths .
I do agree that eventually Truth prevails. Some truths though are hard to accept .
With all due respect, I think you're wrong about calling Chanukah a "minor holiday." While I agree that Chanukah is certainly not as foremost as those Jewish holidays on which all work is proscribed, there is nevertheless something special about Chanukah which ought to make it very important to all of us.
Maimonides, in his Laws of Chanukah, stressed not only the importance of Chanukah but especially the very important mitzvah of kindling the menorah. Centuries passed after the time of Maimonides, during which we couldn't display the lighted menorah in the windows of our homes as we once did. But then, Jewish immigrants who came to America were able once again to display the lighted menorah, proudly declaring: "Here lives a Jew." I'm sure I don't need to tell you that this wonderful thing was not possible in the European countries from which these immigrants came. That very act of being able to make such a visible declaration of one's Jewishness, without fear of attack or worse, makes Chanukah a significant holiday, in my estimation. It makes America a very special country, as well.
I excerpted this portion for its eloquence. In that respect Chanukah is indeed important. As a history buff I wonder at what point in our sojourn to the U.S. and Canada we felt free to "display the lighted menorah in the windows of our homes." That is indeed a very beautiful thing. I don't know if you have noticed this about my posting, but I am decidedly cool to our European interlude and indeed to most things European. My family was safely here before the Shoach. But I cannot see why people look to Europe as the height of civilization. It is, perhaps, the height of pretension to high manners. But the point of the role of the menorah in the window is a very powerful one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork
Taking this back to the OP's complaint about being "shut down" from having an "honest discussion" by those with whom he may find himself in disagreement on Facebook or Twitter or whatever... I can only shake my head in wonder at how some people view this kind of social shunning as being some form of intolerable injustice. Especially when there are still places in the world where actual governments physically oppress and murder those with whom they disagree, or whom they just don't like.
We certainly agree that oppression by actual governments is a far more serious manner. But in our country, where the "three networks", which were regulated by the "fairness doctrine" has largely been superseded by Facebook, Twitter and a few other outlets, there is a risk of politically incorrect views being "cancelled." In the case of literature and music there is a risk that much worthwhile art may become unavailable owing to fear. Fear should have no place in dialogue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork
I tend to think more of Independence Day and Thanksgiving Day as being American holidays than Christmas. I don't mind Christmas Day being a "legal holiday," as it means a day off from work for me, dinner at a Chinese restaurant, and a movie in a theater that's near-empty except for me and my rowdy friends. Couldn't do it this past year, though, on account of the pandemic.
We as a family do Chinese at Christmas but it is usually take-out. As for the rest, on the manner in which Christmas has woven its way into Americana (think country music, etc.) we will agree to disagree. I don't think you'll see the need to cancel this post or poster.
I tend to think more of Independence Day and Thanksgiving Day as being American holidays than Christmas. I don't mind Christmas Day being a "legal holiday," as it means a day off from work for me, dinner at a Chinese restaurant, and a movie in a theater that's near-empty except for me and my rowdy friends. Couldn't do it this past year, though, on account of the pandemic.
I've posted this before, but I think it speaks to our ever-growing multicultural country. A few years ago when I was still working, I was in our coffee room as Christmas was approaching when a Jewish coworker was kiddingly saying to a Hindu coworker that since so many Indians had moved to the NY/NJ area, the Jews had to get out earlier on Christmas now to get a seat at the movies and Chinese restaurants because the Hindus were now competing with them.
It was funny, but there was a deeper theme there about how our different cultures can mesh and get along despite our differences.
I currently work for a company owned by a Muslim family. While Islam tells of the same events that Christians call our Christmas story, they don't celebrate the holiday because of their differing religious beliefs, but the husband and wife were married on December 25, and so every year as we break for Christmas, they wish me a Merry Christmas, and I wish them a Happy Anniversary.
I've posted this before, but I think it speaks to our ever-growing multicultural country. A few years ago when I was still working, I was in our coffee room as Christmas was approaching when a Jewish coworker was kiddingly saying to a Hindu coworker that since so many Indians had moved to the NY/NJ area, the Jews had to get out earlier on Christmas now to get a seat at the movies and Chinese restaurants because the Hindus were now competing with them.
LOL! I've noticed this, too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
It was funny, but there was a deeper theme there about how our different cultures can mesh and get along despite our differences.
I currently work for a company owned by a Muslim family. While Islam tells of the same events that Christians call our Christmas story, they don't celebrate the holiday because of their differing religious beliefs, but the husband and wife were married on December 25, and so every year as we break for Christmas, they wish me a Merry Christmas, and I wish them a Happy Anniversary.
Respect for our differences goes a long way.
Well said, MQ. I do believe that one can often find more things that unite us than things that divide us. One doesn't have to look that hard, either, but one does have to step outside one's usual comfort zone every now and then. Treating others with respect (even on website forums like this one), helps to break down those barriers.
If you go to the Smithsonian Museums on Thanksgiving, it's standing room only. Full of immigrants from countries with no Thanksgiving tradition, Latinos and Asians. The only walk in restaurants open are Chinese.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Couldn't do it this past year, though, on account of the pandemic. 
I do believe that one can often find more things that unite us than things that divide us. One doesn't have to look that hard, either, but one does have to step outside one's usual comfort zone every now and then. Treating others with respect (even on website forums like this one), helps to break down those barriers.