So how accepting should we be of language changes? (spokesman, claims, laws)
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My explanation for this in another thread got buried, so I'll copy it here.
Great write-up explaining “gender” vs “sex” notions in linguistics!
In some gendered languages the same object could be described by 2 different words: one word would be of masculine gender and the other would be a feminine. Equal opportunity ?
I remember when there was huge fuss when women said they wanted to be professionally addressed as "Ms." instead of "Miss" or "Mrs." The eventual inclusion of the Ms. honorific in the dictionary (because that's what dictionaries are all about) even enraged some people.
I don't understand why any request for addressing others the way they wish to be addressed has to immediately trigger imaginings of the apocalyptic end of the world. As for the word "woke" -- I think it's used way too often as a scare-word by those who get easily upset by new words and concepts. For such people, I suggest that they simply substitute the word "woke" (meaning "alert to injustice in society") with a familiar phrase that was taught to many of us in years past by our parents: "Treat others the way that you would want to be treated."
You don't? How about you'll need to carry around a notebook and look up every single individual's "preferred pronoun" before speaking to or about them or be FIRED or FINED.
And it was the WOKE CROWD who demanded the word be "normalized" not the individuals against it and it's concepts.
You don't? How about you'll need to carry around a notebook and look up every single individual's "preferred pronoun" before speaking to or about them or be FIRED or FINED.
And it was the WOKE CROWD who demanded the word be "normalized" not the individuals against it and it's concepts.
People get fired from their jobs for intentionally and repeatedly denigrating their workmates -- not for innocently forgetting to use the right pronoun. If you're working with someone long enough, you should know how that person wishes to be addressed (or referred to). If you somehow "missed the memo" and you honestly don't know, you can ask. But, after having been told, you repeatedly call a transgender woman "him", or a transgender man "she" or "sweetie" (as did a bar manager to a restaurant employee in a recent case in Vancouver), either because you think it's funny to do so or because this is your chosen means of expressing your disapproval for people with the temerity to request that you address or refer to them a certain way, then you've earned the consequences that come with having created a hostile workplace for your employer's business.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 12-12-2021 at 11:31 AM..
Reason: Added "referred to" and "refer to" for clarity.
France is roiled over a battle regarding "non-binary pronoun." And blames us.
Are we smarter and kinder, or just dumber and more of a pushover for wanting to cater to every group, fearful of ever hurting anyone's feelings? (Meanwhile, in public discourse, it's more vicious than ever.)
Actually, we already have a non-binary pronoun: It.
In a Nonbinary Pronoun, France Sees a U.S. Attack on the Republic
When a French dictionary included the gender-nonspecific “iel” for the first time, a virulent reaction erupted over “wokisme” exported from American universities.
Perhaps France was always going to have a hard time with nonbinary pronouns. Its language is intensely gender-specific and fiercely protected by august authorities. Still, the furor provoked by a prominent dictionary’s inclusion of the pronoun “iel” has been remarkably virulent. https://unforumnet.com/in-a-nonbinar...-the-republic/
Of COURSE they object - as you note, French is a gendered language and EVERYTHING has a gender, so certainly people do!
Generally....language used to change over generations...then over decades...now it changes every year with so many new terms and phrases with others falling out of favor. If something new sticks for a few years then sure, use it. But be careful - we've all read things that are very dated 10 years later. That can be either charming or ....yeah. Better to stick with language that's not too stilted but not filled with the colloquialisms of the year.
You don't? How about you'll need to carry around a notebook and look up every single individual's "preferred pronoun" before speaking to or about them or be FIRED or FINED.
And it was the WOKE CROWD who demanded the word be "normalized" not the individuals against it and it's concepts.
I'm happy to be "woke", because all that phrase means is that I'm "alert to injustice in society".
However, I agree with your first paragraph. While all people need to think before they speak, others need to consider things such as intent.
I remember when the whole Ms. thing got started. I knew women who HATED being addressed as Ms., and others who demanded to be addressed as Ms. And others who didn't care one way or another. It shouldn't be a guessing game.
Definitely true in many languages (Spanish, Italian), partially true in some languages (German), and not true at all in others (Welsh). Then there's Chinese, in which nouns are classified by shape and quality. You can't count anything in Chinese unless you know the "counter" for the class it falls into, whether it's a human, a large animal, a small animal, a fish, a bird, a book, a musical instrument, an object shaped like a flat sheet, or a stick, or a lump, etc. etc.
France is roiled over a battle regarding "non-binary pronoun." And blames us.
Are we smarter and kinder, or just dumber and more of a pushover for wanting to cater to every group, fearful of ever hurting anyone's feelings? (Meanwhile, in public discourse, it's more vicious than ever.)
Actually, we already have a non-binary pronoun: It.
In a Nonbinary Pronoun, France Sees a U.S. Attack on the Republic
When a French dictionary included the gender-nonspecific “iel” for the first time, a virulent reaction erupted over “wokisme” exported from American universities.
Perhaps France was always going to have a hard time with nonbinary pronouns. Its language is intensely gender-specific and fiercely protected by august authorities. Still, the furor provoked by a prominent dictionary’s inclusion of the pronoun “iel” has been remarkably virulent. https://unforumnet.com/in-a-nonbinar...-the-republic/
France is absolutely correct here. Battling insanity is always a good cause.
I'm backlashing too. This is the silliest most foolhardy steaming pile of PC gibberish to come along in a while. How about, "Hey, YOU! Yeah, YOU! The one who doesn't know who they are!"
Teachers and professors and supervisors getting disciplined for using the "wrong pronoun"? Please.
We have more serious matters to discuss. Like allowing men to destroy women's sports by competing as "women" when they aren't, and walk around naked in their locker and dressing rooms. Anyone who considers that normal or acceptable or "progress" needs acute psychiatric intervention.
Our society will implode due to contagious insanity if this keeps up. And yes, insanity is a contagious disease.
You don't? How about you'll need to carry around a notebook and look up every single individual's "preferred pronoun" before speaking to or about them or be FIRED or FINED.
And it was the WOKE CROWD who demanded the word be "normalized" not the individuals against it and it's concepts.
Oh, come off the fake martyrdom! People aren't fired or fined for accidentally addressing a coworker by a pronoun that person doesn't like. Workers are fired or fined for repeatedly and deliberately disrespecting a coworker by how they address that coworker.
Oh, come off the fake martyrdom! People aren't fired or fined for accidentally addressing a coworker by a pronoun that person doesn't like. Workers are fired or fined for repeatedly and deliberately disrespecting a coworker by how they address that coworker.
It's getting pretty crazy. A Fordham lecturer was fired for accidently calling a student by another student's name.
The students say they were disrespected but the instructor says it was a mistake. This happens all the time in colleges when professors have an enormous turnover of students every quarter. Pretty hard to remember everyone's names.
So apparently all you have to say is that you felt disrespected without being able to prove intent and you can cost someone their livelihood.
That's pretty severe judgement for a minor error. Maybe the instructor should have had a notebook complete with each student's name and picture?
Ah, the priveleged generation.
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