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France is roiled over a battle regarding "non-binary pronoun." And blames us.
Are we smarter and kinder, or just dumber and more of a pushover for wanting to cater to every group, fearful of ever hurting anyone's feelings? (Meanwhile, in public discourse, it's more vicious than ever.)
Actually, we already have a non-binary pronoun: It.
In a Nonbinary Pronoun, France Sees a U.S. Attack on the Republic
When a French dictionary included the gender-nonspecific “iel” for the first time, a virulent reaction erupted over “wokisme” exported from American universities.
Perhaps France was always going to have a hard time with nonbinary pronouns. Its language is intensely gender-specific and fiercely protected by august authorities. Still, the furor provoked by a prominent dictionary’s inclusion of the pronoun “iel” has been remarkably virulent. https://unforumnet.com/in-a-nonbinar...-the-republic/
Not surprised about the backlash. France has a long history of objecting to the intrusion of English words/phrases into the French language.
Different French groups, farmers, fishers, rail workers, etc. can be quite militant in pursuing their goals.
Americans are generally recognized as more accepting of change in most spheres than pretty much everyone else. Language is no exception.
I have no issues with gender-neutral pronouns for other people if they desire, but I object to attempts at public pressure to declare your pronouns. I was once in a group of 100+ people at a lecture and we were all asked to stand up and declare our pronouns. I said I couldn't remember what each of the 40 people before me had said, and had no reason to believe anyone would remember what I said. I was amazed that I seemed to be the only one who had challenged the "orthodoxy".
Eh, I mean it’s a free society and at the end of the day you can be as accepting as you want.
For me it’s less about the words than the attitude. If you come to me respectfully and ask that I use a pronoun of your preference, then I’m game. Even if it’s a little wacky, it’s ok by me - I just don’t really care that much and whether I’m being trolled or it would genuinely make your day, it registers below my threshold of being bothered. If you come at me with an entitled attitude, however, then yeah I’ll get a little defensive and I’m probably going to return as much respect as I was shown as a human. A little kindness goes a long way when you want to also be treated with kindness. I think of it as being a bit like going by a nickname - nobody really gets confrontational over it, and nobody should.
I remember when there was huge fuss when women said they wanted to be professionally addressed as "Ms." instead of "Miss" or "Mrs." The eventual inclusion of the Ms. honorific in the dictionary (because that's what dictionaries are all about) even enraged some people.
I don't understand why any request for addressing others the way they wish to be addressed has to immediately trigger imaginings of the apocalyptic end of the world. As for the word "woke" -- I think it's used way too often as a scare-word by those who get easily upset by new words and concepts. For such people, I suggest that they simply substitute the word "woke" (meaning "alert to injustice in society") with a familiar phrase that was taught to many of us in years past by our parents: "Treat others the way that you would want to be treated."
I remember when there was huge fuss when women said they wanted to be professionally addressed as "Ms." instead of "Miss" or "Mrs." The eventual inclusion of the Ms. honorific in the dictionary (because that's what dictionaries are all about) even enraged some people.
I don't understand why any request for addressing others the way they wish to be addressed has to immediately trigger imaginings of the apocalyptic end of the world. As for the word "woke" -- I think it's used way too often as a scare-word by those who get easily upset by new words and concepts. For such people, I suggest that they simply substitute the word "woke" (meaning "alert to injustice in society") with a familiar phrase that was taught to many of us in years past by our parents: "Treat others the way that you would want to be treated."
That’s a good point - language isn’t immutable, and English especially has always been fairly malleable and has among the richest vocabularies of any language, traits which have helped it become a lingua franca. I think there’s valid concerns about language policing and such, but there’s nothing inherently distressing about a language evolving to include new concepts or ideas which need to be described one way or another.
I don't mind new words but nobody should be forced to use them. I also don't like the current fad of "redefining" words and phrases that become inconvenient to ideologies.
So how accepting should we be of language changes?
Sometimes we should not be accepting at all.
My 16 year old grandniece decided to get a non-binary haircut. That's fine. I know she's a girl.
But she wanted to be referred to as "them". Or "they". I refused. I have a grandniece. She was born a girl and remains a girl. I will refer to her as "her". "She". "Sweetheart".
It's been 6 months. The non-binary haircut is mostly grown out now, and she looks great.
Sometimes we should not be accepting at all.
My 16 year old grandniece decided to get a non-binary haircut. That's fine. I know she's a girl.
But she wanted to be referred to as "them". Or "they". I refused. I have a grandniece. She was born a girl and remains a girl. I will refer to her as "her". "She". "Sweetheart".
It's been 6 months. The non-binary haircut is mostly grown out now, and she looks great.
I stand with you on this issue of identity and pronoun usage.
Re-inventing the wheel these days ..
Language is fascinating in how it evolved from ancient times and "american -english" has dipped into the well of nations tongues and created its own formation-pronunciations.
I recall studying spanish and its has masculine and feminine words. They are really going to have a humdinger of a time changing it to fit the current model of <it they them> when speaking of a senorita, senora...etc.
I'm not going to call a person a goat simply because they walked up to me in a civil manner and said the person prefers that identity. I might call them a donkey though when they walk away sulking ( tongue in cheek humor).
I remember when there was huge fuss when women said they wanted to be professionally addressed as "Ms." instead of "Miss" or "Mrs." The eventual inclusion of the Ms. honorific in the dictionary (because that's what dictionaries are all about) even enraged some people.
I don't understand why any request for addressing others the way they wish to be addressed has to immediately trigger imaginings of the apocalyptic end of the world. As for the word "woke" -- I think it's used way too often as a scare-word by those who get easily upset by new words and concepts. For such people, I suggest that they simply substitute the word "woke" (meaning "alert to injustice in society") with a familiar phrase that was taught to many of us in years past by our parents: "Treat others the way that you would want to be treated."
True, and the French language is only feminine or masculine now, with no gender neutral words whatsoever. It is not even a case where a non-binary person has to use gendered pronouns, but a whole language that is sprinkled with feminine or masculine words throughout. It is easy to see how this might be troubling since it’s not something that is even possible to get around. The only other option is to use words designating the opposite gender, which is equally unacceptable to some.
I was born in 1960, yet when I read a newspaper article from the 1960's the language sounds really dated and I'm not just talking about use of words that are now "taboo".
Unlike the U.S. where language just evolves on its own and we have no "official language", France has an official agency (not sure if it's actually run by the government) in charge of the French language. So they are a different kettle of fish.
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