If you were King, how would you address the homeless issue? (death, solution)
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I don't think that's the way to go. You are making it illegal to be poor and/or mentally ill and locking people up for this. That's harsh. How do you make someone obey rules to not sleep on the streets when they have nowhere to go?
I think at minimum we have to ask ourselves what are we doing here: Trying to make ourselves more comfortable or trying to actually help our fellow man?
How about something less than jails but more than homeless shelters. Someplace they can be taken to if caught sleeping on the streets but also can't just leave before being treated for whatever and showing improvements that will allow them to stay off the streets? Again though, they would have to be staffed with professionals that don't currently exist, and it would attract some pretty bad people who like abusing power. Human nature ruins the best of plans.
I guess, you know, if I was a King but not a God, I would first realize that while I might improve somewhat on how things are on the ground right now, I would not have any delusions about being able to completely eliminate homelessness. Probably homeless people can be sorted into groups, the drug abusers, the mentally ill, and the ones who are just down on their luck financially. That last group would be the easiest to help. Who decides who is mentally ill, versus just holding to rather unpopular opinions? I guess the "King" part of this is to indicate that I would have virtually unlimited administrative power, and could change laws that were preventing me from reducing the homeless population, but I would not have omniscient knowledge, so I could not be sure of being right when I made a move. Drug abusers are notoriously hard to clean up or help.
And one problem for a libertarian King as I would be, is what do I do (if, indeed, anything) about people who are out living a "home-free" lifestyle and are not breaking any laws or hurting anyone else. Maybe they don't want any help. Maybe the best I could do is to leave them alone, maybe offering temporary shelter in inclement weather, and some supplemental food, perhaps a respite place where they could get a shower and clean clothes?
Or, more realistically, if Uncle Joe reached out and appointed me as "homelessness reduction czar" with a billion dollar budget, I would have to think clearly about how to spend the money, what to do, and more importantly what *not* to do. Certainly there is no obvious "one size fits all" answer to cleaning up the issue.
Stop enabling drug abuse which plagues the homeless population. Close the southern border, stop handing out free government needles to the homeless, don't allow people to set up homeless camps on city sidewalks, arrest and prosecute drug dealers.
I'd like you to expand on what you mean by that last part of the sentence, bolded. It sounds as if you mean some sort of ultimatum or are suggesting that families have the power to make a difference and are just neglecting to do so. I may be misreading that.
Many families have exhausted themselves trying to care for the mentally ill and/or addicted. Incorporating assistance from organizations like NAMI that provide support to both the mentally ill and their families, as well as similar organizations that help with addiction, should be a key part of helping the homeless who fall under those categories.
A guy I went to school with ended up homeless, probably as a result of addiction. I didn't know him very well. Kind of a quiet guy, but friendly when you spoke with him, and looking back, I believe he had some sort of learning disability. Back when we were kids, if kids weren't diagnosed as mentally disabled but didn't do well in school, they just sort of pushed them through.
I remember someone saw once saw him in NYC seemingly helping a hot dog vendor wearing a long trench coat in the summer. Eventually we learned that his body had been found in an alley in a plastic garbage bag. His brother was a police officer, and his family had tried every which way to help him, but he refused all help and he came to that sad end.
Some families do abandon their mentally or addicted members, unfortunately, but I think in most cases, families would welcome support but are unable to help their loved ones on their own much of the time.
I'm not saying families have not tried to help, I'm sure most have. I just think they should be offered 1 last chance before my Kingdom whisks them off the streets to some other existence, away from society.
I agree w/ schools in the past not catching learning disabilities, and pushing kids through. My Brother was 1 of them. We tried to help him, & it worked for a while. Schools are better at spotting and treating that now....but still have a ways to go.
I'm not saying families have not tried to help, I'm sure most have. I just think they should be offered 1 last chance before my Kingdom whisks them off the streets to some other existence, away from society.
I agree w/ schools in the past not catching learning disabilities, and pushing kids through. My Brother was 1 of them. We tried to help him, & it worked for a while. Schools are better at spotting and treating that now....but still have a ways to go.
OK, thanks for the clarification. I also think the schools are better these days at focusing on kids with issues and offering help when needed and agree that the system is not yet perfect.
Your "other existence" remark made me remember my former sister-in-law telling me years ago that her very large, mentally ill son was in some sort of residential facility where they had a little store, a restaurant, etc., where they helped them try to learn to interact normally in society. Make a purchase, order food, and handle situations when they don't go perfectly well. Unless he was medicated, he tended to be violent and take offense at the least little thing. He was in there because he put a knife to his mother's back and told her to drive him to the car dealership and buy him a car he wanted. He put the knife in his pocket when they got to the dealership but reminded her it was there, so she went in and said she wanted to buy X car, pulled out her checkbook, and wrote, PLEASE CALL THE POLICE on the check and handed it to the salesman.
He is now around 40 and lives with his mother. He is my daughter's cousin, and she met up with him and her aunt a couple of years ago. She says he is very mellow and pleasant and smiling, obviously well-medicated. I don't believe he holds any sort of job, though. Perhaps is on disability.
That's another issue. Some mentally ill homeless are never going to be able to function as far as holding a job, while others might. One of the people killed on 9/11 at the World Trade Center was the recycling guy. He came around to empty our paper recycling bins at our desks and put them into the larger bin on wheels he pushed. He was very quiet, very shy, would not look you in the eye, but if you said "good morning" he would return the greeting.
Afterward I saw an article about him because his adult son in another state hadn't seen him since he was a child and didn't know where he was until he was notified that his father had died. He'd gone to prison for a year or two for theft, and when he got out he fell into alcoholism and homelessness and living on the streets of NYC until he somehow landed in some rehab program that helped him stop drinking and found him the job.
Which tells us that there are already such programs out there. We just need more of them and the funding and staff to handle the numbers of homeless out there who fit a similar description.
I don't think that anyone here is painting Europe as being a social paradise. It does seem, though, that many countries in Europe are actually doing more to solve the problem of homelessness and other social ills than people here in the U.S. are doing.
By and large, sure. Naturally, that comes with a pricetag and some drawbacks in other areas. Though homelessness has escalated in many European cities in the last few years too. Just like in the U.S., the areas with the best and most generous benefits for the poor, a wealthy population as well as a good commercial infrastructure serve to pull in homeless from other areas.
Quote:
I'm not familiar with the council flats in the larger cities of London or Paris that you mentioned, but I am familiar with the council flats in England's northern towns, as we have an elderly relative living in one right now. The council flat gives our family member the independence she desires at a price she can afford. Trust me, we would not stand for this elderly relative living in the kind of environment that you imagine to exist throughout all of Europe
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Council housing tends to be handed out along guidelines that assigns people prioritization levels based on various characteristics meant to indicate 'neediness'. There is a commitment to ensure that council housing exists everywhere as well, including nice areas. As the name implies, the local council bears responsibility for this housing. As a result there's considerable variation both in terms of the quality of the available council housing and the type of people who manage to obtain it. Even in London, council housing can be a million pound townhouse in the West End or a small flat in a tower block in Lewisham that has kids dealing dope out of it. Residents can vary from elderly sick people to large families with frequent run-ins with the law etc.
My point wasnt that all social housing is awful, but that there is a lot of that, and there definitely is a stigma attached to living in areas full of social housing. Every European city has known areas locals consider undesirable and bad and they're usually full of social housing projects. Perhaps the trick is to not allow social housing to make up more than a certain % of housing in a wider area.
Another issue is lack of affordable housing. Efficiency apartments aren’t profitable enough in some communities so they don’t get developed. Mobile homes are affordable but some communities are banning trailer parks for tax revenue generating subdivisions or commercial properties. Developers aren’t building small affordable homes choosing instead to build McMansion type homes for greater profit.
Well, yes, this is the elephant in the room. At least for the 1/3 who are not addicts or mentally ill. The percentage who've fallen on hard times. They may not have become homeless if housing weren't so unobtainable. Hence the increase in homelessness since prices went through the roof.
I think governments will have to step in and create some kind of affordable housing. But then you look at "the projects" in various places and how downtrodden they are. Sigh....
I forgot my own storyline. The King would have to have overseers on these "projects" to make sure they get built properly and are maintained. Minions!
Last edited by Sand&Salt; 12-26-2021 at 01:13 PM..
Reason: Forgot my story
Many homeless choose that lifestyle. They want to live life on their own terms, period. Don't want to be told what to do, or when to do it. That nixes work and career. Nobody can really force another person to work or want to live like a normal person. If I were king, I would round up the homeless and place them in a gated community for homeless. Here's your house or apartment. If you choose to still loiter in public places then, I would arrest and put them in jail. There have to be limits to their flouting of laws and societal norms.
You pinpoint the unique to the US problem:an absolute freedom and the liberty to do what you want, however ridiculous it would seem.
The second challenge- the relative easy way to feed yourself by begging, stealing or getting free supplies, even cash - from the charities or “kind and helpful” individuals dropping food and supplies to homeless
Hunger is a good motivator to get your self together - but no one truly goes hungry here- missing a meal or 2 doesn’t count.
The third challenge - is a lack of personal shame and a lack of disapproval from the tolerant society- see #1.
Our laws won’t allow to force you to quit drugs- unless imprisoned for other crimes;
The laws can’t force you into mental institutions - unless you are psychotic and a danger to public- and only for a few days - until the crisis is over.
The laws can’t force you to involuntary take medication to help you with your mental diseases and disorders;
Vagrancy laws are unenforceable - even less so now as you could be called racist or anti- “housing challenged”
Thank the liberal society and the stronghold of the lawyers
A sizable portion of homeless population here is homeless voluntarily.
Somebody mentioned the USSR: they had a law that if you don’t have a job and can’t show the source of how you cover your living expenses - like inheritance or support of relatives - you could be prosecuted for “parasitism”
The assumption was that you are doing something illegal. They did not need to prove it, but you are going to be prosecuted if you refuse 3 offers of 3 different jobs- and you could go to a labor camps for a few months if convicted.
However unfair the system in the US could be- life isn’t always easy or fair and the injustice exists - but anyone who doesn’t want to be homeless can get help and a roof over their head right now: any place, anytime.
Nobody has to sleep on the streets if they don’t want.
That is the truth
Without exceptions - if one has a will to stop being homeless - the help is already available - courtesy of the taxpayers.
Perhaps, if one is the King- they can stop the nonsense- but will the King get an absolute power?
Then another question arises: is the King benevolent?
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 12-28-2021 at 09:53 AM..
Reason: Edited out profanity. Don't use profanity here. Thank you.
Kings don't work in the USA. Shaking off European customs and values is still a work in progress.
As some sort of leader of a Michigan or Great Lakes nation, I would start with leading by example. I would start a small farm, employ some farmhands, be photographed as a farmer, and push legislation to enable smallhold farming. If not farming, I could at least ride a bike or horse to use less energy and make shoes, furniture, etc. instead of buying imported crap. Rebuilding the local economy with renewable resources is how we eventually get to high employment. Hypocritically demanding hardship for thee and luxury for me is guaranteed failure.
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