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Yeah, I get that college is more expensive today, and granted I went back before this in the mid 2000s, but when I was in college I worked 2 jobs and even did odd jobs to get by. Now all you hear is complaining about how much it is. Sure it's more today, but for those that complain about how expensive college is today, have legitimate grievances or do you think it's just more from lazy/entitled people that complain?
The cost of college, is akin to the cost of medical procedures/hospital costs. Both, are out-of-control.
One doesn't offer the promise of success, while the other is the #1 reason why people file bankruptcy...
I missed the part where taxes (including SS and Medicare) are deducted from that take-home pay, and any other expenses the student may have outside of tuition (food, gas,...). Or were those assumptions baked in somewhere in these numbers?
The most expensive public university charges $18K a year, many charge much less. My alma mater UCLA charges $13K a year for undergrad tuition. Cal State Long Beach costs $7K a year for tuition. Since I estimated $22K a year to commute to a public university, yes all those extras (payroll deductions, books, fees, commuting, clothes, beer, dates, etc.) were all baked in. The most expensive part of public college expenses would be living on campus, which can be avoided by living at home and commuting.
The cost of college, is akin to the cost of medical procedures/hospital costs. Both, are out-of-control.
One doesn't offer the promise of success, while the other is the #1 reason why people file bankruptcy...
You won't go bankrupt if you pay for good medical coverage. 6 years ago I was charged $327K for 23 days in hospital and another $50K for outpatient chemo. My out of pocket was $1700.
There is no guarantee of success in life. But good planning, hard work, patience and perseverance puts the odds in your favor. It also depends on how you define success for yourself.
Same college I went to is approximately 130% more expensive than when I graduated in 2007. There is nothing significantly different about the college now, it's just bigger. Same ranking, same quality, etc.. Over double as expensive. The jobs the graduates can get pay maybe 30% more than when I started in the late 00s.
The kids are being screwed. 130%:30% does not add up.
I'm sure it's a little of both- rising costs but also entitlement. There are ways to make college more affordable.
I went to a state university instead of a private college that would have been more targeted to my chosen profession. I was dual-enrolled at community college in my senior year, allowing me to knock off a whole semester's worth of credits from my freshman year. I also took & passed AP classes in Junior and Senior year of high school, qualifying me for more college credits.
I went to school in Florida, where the Bright Futures Scholarship helped pay for a good chunk of my tuition cost. I didn't test well, but both my siblings got 100% BF scholarships while I got a 75% scholarship. I bought second-hand or rented my books for the semester, utilized every "student discount" for software or services, and took advantage of free events and food on campus. My parents helped cover my room & board and I was expected to get A & B grades in return. Zero loans was great but I graduated into the recession, so return on investment for a while was pretty bad.
When I went to pivot my career in the last couple of years I had the choice of doing traditional schooling or a bootcamp type thing. I ended up teaching myself using free resources. Bumped my pay up ~25% with very little cost. Resourceful people will always find a way.
The point you are missing is that yes everything is more expensive today, but the cost of college has gone up literally about 3 to 4 times the rate of inflation. So, while everything is more expensive, the cost of a college education has literally skyrocketed. The link I am enclosing shows that college tuition has increased about 1300% since 1979. On the other hand, inflation has increased by about 300% during the same period.
I paid for my undergraduate college education because it was relatively easy to do so. There maybe a handful of young people who can somehow find a way to do that today in 2022, but the point is that they are the exceptions. Most young people will not be able to find a way to do it and will not end up going to college. Yet, many seniors want to give great lectures to young people about "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" or about how when they went to school forty years ago "they walked uphill to school both ways".
State colleges and universities frankly should face more scrutiny when they raise tuition. Increases should have to be justified the same way that public utilities have to justify rate increases or state government agencies justify property tax increases. We tend to let the Board of Regents skate when it comes to this process and turn a blind eye to huge increases.
Does everything go up at the same rate? Not in my opinion. The rate of inflation affects different areas at different rates. So, I am not missing the point. Well, had the cost raised the same in all colleges? I doubt it. Some are more effective in fighting inflation. Other try to milk as money as possible from the students. I know that.
So, some individuals cannot afford education today. What else is new. In life some people can't get what they want and adapt to something else and become successful. I did not go to college due to circumstances. I got my master's degree at age 47. So, "pulling" oneself "by the bootstraps" give the individual greater appreciation for what was earned. Also, the "they walked uphill to school both ways" show resiliency, commitment, and sacrifice." Those things are important for the character development of an individual. Actually, today there are still those types that are getting their degrees the hard way. My hat off to them. You see them raising families, holding two jobs, and living with the minimum means. I know because I have seen many of them when I teach at a local university. I do not see them complaining or whining of how bad they go it in life. They keep chugging along quietly.
Also, the 'must have a college degree' mentality is not for everyone. Some people would do great with a trade, but many give into the pressure of going for a degree instead.
Should the universities face closer scrutiny? Yes, by all means. I have no problem with that. That is what should be done to see if the rate increases are not disproportionate.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Mixed. They can go to school cheaper for starters. They can also work while in school. My daughter just graduated last month with a 4 year degree in Graphics Design. Very little debt. In this supposed "no way out" scenario that kids claim to be in.
She knew what she wanted her degree in and knew what University she ultimately wanted to go to. So she signed up for Gen Ed's in a local community college. She knocked them out in two years while living at home. She was very careful on what Gen Ed's to picked and ensured they would transfer to the "University of her choice". After two quick years she got her Associates Degree.
She then transferred to University and they accepted all of her credits. Marched in as a Junior. Once in University she then leveraged the Associates degree to find work. It made no sense to take debt out for food, rent, utilities, ect (which most college kids do today).
In two more years she received her degree. Very little debt. None of her classmates (or their parents) even considered this path. It is so obvious, yet the masses just pick a school and magically its paid for.
Your daughter is a very smart lady.
I share our experience. I was in the Army at the time our daughter was in high school when requesting scholarship assistance. I was a Sergeant Major at the time. We requested government loans and assistance and we were denied. Supposedly I made enough money for them to help us. Well, yes, I was at the enlisted top pay level. However, that did not mean we could afford college money for four years.
My wife came up with this great idea. She went online and Googled "scholarships." She submitted so many applications, may about 200. She had my daughter sign them. Also, my daughter had to write so many essay that were part of the applications. To this day she remembers that.
However, suddenly, money started to come in. A 100 here, 200 from there, a 1000 from another one, and on and on. She got enough scholarship money that paid for her 4-year degree and her first year for the masters. We told her not to spend the left-over money on frivolous stuff. That money was for education. We did buy her a new car so she could safely go to school and back home if she had to stay late for research at the university. We also told her that the car was not hers. She would give it back to us once she got her degree. We did further research and the state of Texas paid for her second year of her master's degree.
After she graduated from the graduate program, she gave us back the care and go bought her own.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Does everything go up at the same rate? Not in my opinion. The rate of inflation affects different areas at different rates. So, I am not missing the point. Well, had the cost raised the same in all colleges? I doubt it. Some are more effective in fighting inflation. Other try to milk as money as possible from the students. I know that.
So, some individuals cannot afford education today. What else is new. In life some people can't get what they want and adapt to something else and become successful. I did not go to college due to circumstances. I got my master's degree at age 47. So, "pulling" oneself "by the bootstraps" give the individual greater appreciation for what was earned. Also, the "they walked uphill to school both ways" show resiliency, commitment, and sacrifice." Those things are important for the character development of an individual. Actually, today there are still those types that are getting their degrees the hard way. My hat off to them. You see them raising families, holding two jobs, and living with the minimum means. I know because I have seen many of them when I teach at a local university. I do not see them complaining or whining of how bad they go it in life. They keep chugging along quietly.
Also, the 'must have a college degree' mentality is not for everyone. Some people would do great with a trade, but many give into the pressure of going for a degree instead.
Should the universities face closer scrutiny? Yes, by all means. I have no problem with that. That is what should be done to see if the rate increases are not disproportionate.
You have a great day.
elamigo
There's nothing like simply trying to imagine a problem doesn't exist isn't there? I show you that college tuition has gone up at 4X the rate of inflation and your only response is to say that things don't always increase at the same rate. Sorry, what I've shown is that there is a systemic problem that needs to be addressed on some level. What I see is a system that is going to prevent many talented young people from realizing their ambitions. It is unfortunate and worse it shows just how badly things have deteriorated too.
Last edited by markg91359; 02-01-2022 at 07:41 AM..
In 1977, when I entered the U of U my tuition was approximately $270 a semester. When my son attended the University of Utah tuition was about $4,000.00 a semester. What really got my attention was that in just one year a tuition increase of $400 per semester was approved. In other words, the increase was more than my entire tuition was!
In 1977, I was a struggling student earning just above minimum wage at a job that paid $3 per hour. Minimum wage today is $7.25. Now, virtually all employees earn more than that, but starting wages of $9 or $10 an hour are not uncommon.
Housing costs here are exorbitant. I was able to rent a place with some other students and each of us paid just $100 a month. Today, a two bedroom apartment would easily cost $1400 a month. Most students must live at home out of necessity.
College is much more expensive today than it was when I grew up even when you take inflation into account. The cost of college is a legitimate grievance that young people have.
In 1972, my tuition at the University of Oklahoma was $25 per credit hour. I was making $2.50 an hour at 20-hour part-time job, and it took me only half the semester to pay off my tuition. Last time I checked a couple of years ago, tuition at the same college is $400 per credit hour. A student would have to be making $40 an hour today to do as well...but let's not forget all other college costs have gone up higher than wages as well.
There's nothing like simply trying to imagine a problem doesn't exist isn't there? I show you that college tuition has gone up at 4X the rate of inflation and your only response is to say that things don't always increase at the same rate. Sorry, what I've shown is that there is a systemic problem that needs to be addressed on some level. What I see is a system that is going to prevent many talented young people from realizing their ambitions. It is unfortunate and worse it shows the system is broken.
AND I said I agree with looking to see if the charges are disproportionate. "Systemic" is a favorite word in today's world for everything. Again, I have no problem in doing research, show the results, and demand change. But I do not go along with demonizing a whole system. There are good and bad universities just as in any other types of institutions.
It is good to be talented, also it is good to see how many reach their dreams through sheer focus. Some will not reach the dream right away because of circumstances but they keep their dream and achieve it later. That is life.
By the way, did you imply that said that a problem does not exist there? I know it exists, but not everywhere. Find the universities that charge too much in your opinion and go after them.
In other words, you are stereotyping with your "systemic" mentality. It is no different as I someone thinks that every member of a group is the same whether it is bad or good. Go after the bad people and don't lump the rest as bad also.
Oh, and they always increase at the same rate? Look year by year and tell me if it is the case every year. Also, does it increase at the same rate at EVERY university? Does it increase with private universities the same as state universities? You lump all together without sifting through the different institutions. Maybe you did take a close look at different universities, but you did not state that. You focused on "systemic."
You have a great day.
elamigo
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